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Old 04-01-09, 10:08 PM   #451
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Yeah, the tailwind certainly makes it easier to go a given speed. The thing is that max power is max power no matter how fast you're going. The big difference with the tailwind is that it allows you to accelerate more, and rapidly increase your cadence, and I believe that this allows the gearing to help with your dwindling power during the sprint. Work on your timing and rhythm.

Also, test for 7", not 5. You don't want to miss the good samples.
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Old 04-01-09, 10:35 PM   #452
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Yeah, the tailwind certainly makes it easier to go a given speed. The thing is that max power is max power no matter how fast you're going. The big difference with the tailwind is that it allows you to accelerate more, and rapidly increase your cadence, and I believe that this allows the gearing to help with your dwindling power during the sprint. Work on your timing and rhythm.

Also, test for 7", not 5. You don't want to miss the good samples.
so far i've just been sprinting...not specifically for 5s...I know I have power through 15" so I try to push through 15seconds.
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Old 04-02-09, 06:45 AM   #453
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That's fine for training, but if you're testing, I find it better not to burn up on one or two sprints. I can get several solid tests in at 7". If I go for a full 15", my power will start to fall off after two.
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Old 04-02-09, 07:10 AM   #454
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Weird, my sprints are highly repeatable but low power. I hit my peak wattage for a 20' sprint workout on the 5th sprint, saw a 12% decline on the 9th and 10th sprint.
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Old 04-02-09, 07:43 AM   #455
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Going to lay off the top end stuff and just concentrate on getting good sst work daily... so group rides are out maybe just the Sat. shootout ride to gauge progress biweekly
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Old 04-02-09, 08:16 AM   #456
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Weird, my sprints are highly repeatable but low power. I hit my peak wattage for a 20' sprint workout on the 5th sprint, saw a 12% decline on the 9th and 10th sprint.
Yeah, my non-sprinter friends are the same way. Notably, when my power falls off in the 3rd sprint, it's still at a bit higher W/kg than my non-sprinter friends, and it's repeatable.

My theory is that the top-end that separates me a bit is a single-use benefit. Same with 1' power. I get one spectacular mushroom cloud, then I'm normal.
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Old 04-02-09, 08:22 AM   #457
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New records for me tonight (although I've only been using a PT for a few days now):

5s max 1363
1m max 485

Both of these were done during the course of a normal ride. The 5s max is probably close to true as it was a sprint up a steep incline but the 1 min will be higher as I didn't do a true WRI. I'm excited for my numbers as I've only been back riding for about a month after 4 months off due to injury.

Not bad for a Cat 4 who sucks and weighs 230+....If only I were 165 with those power numbers

I was a mid pack 4 with those numbers @ 165...


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Old 04-02-09, 08:51 AM   #458
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I was a mid pack 4 with those numbers @ 165...


and that my friends is why I can't keep up on the climbs. However I would assume I'm going to be over 1400w for 5s and prolly closer to 550-600w for 1 min (haven't truly done a 1 minute test). Which is still not enough, I know full well that my watts/kg need to be improved and really the best way is going to be losing weight unless I'm gaining hundreds of watts which isn't too likely.

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Old 04-02-09, 08:55 AM   #459
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That's fine for training, but if you're testing, I find it better not to burn up on one or two sprints. I can get several solid tests in at 7". If I go for a full 15", my power will start to fall off after two.
yeah I haven't had a powermeter to test if my power fails after a couple of sprints...I don't feel like it does. I often use this to get my legs to wake up during a ride so i've been known to 3 or 4 15second sprints with ample rest (HR drops below 140) in between. I have to look at power numbers next time I do this.
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Old 04-02-09, 09:59 AM   #460
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and that my friends is why I can't keep up on the climbs. However I would assume I'm going to be over 1400w for 5s and prolly closer to 550-600w for 1 min (haven't truly done a 1 minute test). Which is still not enough, I know full well that my watts/kg need to be improved and really the best way is going to be losing weight unless I'm gaining hundreds of watts which isn't too likely.
I think that 5" especially and 1' to a lessser extent are very acceleration based and w/kg is still very imporant especially if you are talking about a race-winning move such as establishing a break or the final run to the line. The longer durations seem IMO to skew more to raw power or W/cda unless you are talking about a long climb.
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Old 04-02-09, 12:54 PM   #461
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I think that 5" especially and 1' to a lessser extent are very acceleration based and w/kg is still very imporant especially if you are talking about a race-winning move such as establishing a break or the final run to the line. The longer durations seem IMO to skew more to raw power or W/cda unless you are talking about a long climb.
I don't know too many people that can out sprint me so the 5 sec and 1 minute for me atleast the watts/kg don't really matter. My problem is being there for the sprint...anything over a minute is a long climb for me and my pace really takes a hit.
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Old 04-02-09, 01:56 PM   #462
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I don't know too many people that can out sprint me so the 5 sec and 1 minute for me atleast the watts/kg don't really matter. My problem is being there for the sprint...anything over a minute is a long climb for me and my pace really takes a hit.
Your numbers are good but spectacular even not factoring in weight, so if you don't know many people that can outsprint you, then I'm going to go ahead and say you don't know very many people. Me? I know tons of people that can outsprint me
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Old 04-02-09, 02:11 PM   #463
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I'm a 4...there don't seem to be alot of sprinters around here...just alot of little climbers. Yes I haven't raced in the 3s and above so I'm sure a lot of those guys can outsprint me. In fact last week, my buddy and I were riding and decided to sprint and we were neck and neck until I died because i'm not in shape. He just upgraded to a 2.
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Old 04-02-09, 03:23 PM   #464
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One note on the 5" power, you might see if you can do better on a completely flat course, with a tailwind. I can get 50-100W more in those conditions. My theory is that the cadence decrease helps me overcome some of the blowout from the initial jump.
Funny you say that, ALL of my wattages are up vs RPE with a tailwind. Yesterday I was cruising along at 290 watts @ 30mph, but with a cross/head wind my mph dropped to around 19-20, and I was at 270 for the same RPE. Could be mental though...
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Old 04-02-09, 03:25 PM   #465
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I'm a 4...there don't seem to be alot of sprinters around here...just alot of little climbers. Yes I haven't raced in the 3s and above so I'm sure a lot of those guys can outsprint me. In fact last week, my buddy and I were riding and decided to sprint and we were neck and neck until I died because i'm not in shape. He just upgraded to a 2.
You sound like you have a strong sprint. Just drop the weight and build up your weaknesses. You have the perfect tools and a good forum for help. It's amazing what only a few months of specific training can do.
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Old 04-02-09, 03:59 PM   #466
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Yeah, my non-sprinter friends are the same way. Notably, when my power falls off in the 3rd sprint, it's still at a bit higher W/kg than my non-sprinter friends, and it's repeatable.

My theory is that the top-end that separates me a bit is a single-use benefit. Same with 1' power. I get one spectacular mushroom cloud, then I'm normal.
This made me laugh, and further confirms that I am not a sprinter.
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Old 04-02-09, 04:13 PM   #467
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Funny you say that, ALL of my wattages are up vs RPE with a tailwind. Yesterday I was cruising along at 290 watts @ 30mph, but with a cross/head wind my mph dropped to around 19-20, and I was at 270 for the same RPE. Could be mental though...
I think it has something to do with momentum. I found that I'm able to hit consistently higher sustained power with my race wheels vs. my training wheels (crank PM).
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Old 04-02-09, 08:00 PM   #468
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I think it has something to do with momentum. I found that I'm able to hit consistently higher sustained power with my race wheels vs. my training wheels (crank PM).
Yep. It's as simple as looking at coast down time. If you coast to zero faster (and it's not because of a hill), then you're losing a lot of momentum on the weak part of the stroke. When you carry some momentum, you don't slow down much on the weak part of the stroke, so this prevents you from having to accelerate so much each time you push a pedal.
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Old 04-02-09, 08:08 PM   #469
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That would explain a higher speed but not higher power output.

I think it's a placebo effect of "I've got my fast wheels on now, so now I'm fast" kind of thing.
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Old 04-02-09, 08:23 PM   #470
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Just a thought, but I also find that I can put out more power on my race bike with good wheels, and also my race shoes-which I only wear on sunny days- maybe because I am more comfortable, less flex in the frame wheels, I don't know-might be a silly thought.
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Old 04-02-09, 09:18 PM   #471
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That would explain a higher speed but not higher power output.

I think it's a placebo effect of "I've got my fast wheels on now, so now I'm fast" kind of thing.
No, like WR said it's because of momentum. It's the opposite of why it's harder to make power on a trainer.
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Old 04-02-09, 09:28 PM   #472
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That would explain a higher speed but not higher power output.
Well, if you study quadrant analysis a bit, you can see that leg speed and power are related. There's some effect of having to accelerate more with each pedal stroke that lowers efficiency.
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Old 04-02-09, 09:38 PM   #473
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so....Coggan.

interesting guy.
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Old 04-02-09, 10:06 PM   #474
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so....Coggan.

interesting guy.
Hang out on the wattage group... very interesting
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Old 04-04-09, 01:19 PM   #475
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QUESTION My second power workout today, club ride, I worked hard, went home, and downloaded my data. My question is how come my PT broke my workout into 4 workouts... I didn't touch it during the ride, yet there were 4 workouts when I uploaded the data. We stopped once for a flat and had 2 regroup points along the way. Did the PT automatically start a new session each time I stopped? If so how can I get it to autopause, then resume the same workout on longer rides?
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