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-   -   Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here! (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/488667-just-started-training-power-post-your-questions-comments-here.html)

substructure 11-24-08 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus (Post 7907790)
Include zeroes. For example, last year I did a crit @ 302w AP, 345w NP, and my PT (not including zeroes) reported something like 386w.

It's not an accurate reflection of work done over time, as if you're coasting with 0 power a lot and sprinting the rest of the time the readings will be really goofy.

Thanks Snuff.

ZeCanon 11-24-08 09:18 AM

TT position help? anyone?

Don't make me make a thread with photos of me on the trainer...

umd 11-24-08 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by substructure (Post 7907645)
I thought I was suppose to NOT include zeros? What's right?

Include zeros in averages. I only excluded them from the distribution chart I showed because there was a lot of descending/coasting and it obscured the bins in the distribution... the distribution shape is not affected by the zeros but the scale of the chart is...

substructure 11-24-08 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7907970)
Include zeros in averages. I only excluded them from the distribution chart I showed because there was a lot of descending/coasting and it obscured the bins in the distribution... the distribution shape is not affected by the zeros but the scale of the chart is...

Well, I forgot how to put them back in. :o

ridethecliche 11-24-08 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeCanon (Post 7907943)
TT position help? anyone?

Don't make me make a thread with photos of me on the trainer...

If anything, your best bet is an Ibike since you'll get real time drag data if you use it with a powermeter.

Perhaps go this route and then sell the ibike or hold onto it since it's going to be way cheaper than time in the tunnel. You could probably use it during a race to adjust if it gets gusty and such.

umd 11-24-08 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7908536)
If anything, your best bet is an Ibike since you'll get real time drag data if you use it with a powermeter.

Perhaps go this route and then sell the ibike or hold onto it since it's going to be way cheaper than time in the tunnel. You could probably use it during a race to adjust if it gets gusty and such.

iBike & ANT+ powermeter (Quarq, SRM or PT) and you can determine your drag coeffient in different positions. It's a portable wind tunnel. :D

kudude 11-24-08 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7908551)
iBike & ANT+ powermeter (Quarq, SRM or PT) and you can determine your drag coeffient in different positions. It's a portable wind tunnel. :D

i'd love to write that software. don't really have funds to buy all the necessary equipment, though

ZeCanon 11-24-08 11:23 AM

yeah... no extra money so buying more equipment is pretty much out of the question. I use what is given to me.
I was hoping someone had a protocol that had helped them find a good position, but I guess I'll just have to invent one on my own :) I'll let you all know how it goes.

umd 11-24-08 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kudude (Post 7908706)
i'd love to write that software. don't really have funds to buy all the necessary equipment, though

I'm pretty sure all the software is already available. That's what Tom has been doing. Note that the iBike acts as the head unit so if someone got a Quarq, they could get the iBike instead of the Garmin, and the cost would be about the same. And you wouldn't need a Quarq, you could do it with the ANT+Sport PT as well.

asgelle 11-24-08 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeCanon (Post 7908741)
I was hoping someone had a protocol that had helped them find a good position, but I guess I'll just have to invent one on my own :) I'll let you all know how it goes.

You might want to look in at the Wattage group at Google. There's been a lot of work done already and software is available.

sgrundy 11-24-08 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by substructure (Post 7907997)
Well, I forgot how to put them back in. :o

Use the configure device button in the cycleops software.

pinky 11-24-08 02:08 PM

ze, go to biketechreview.com and check out the forum. It will have the low down on aero testing.

ZeCanon 11-24-08 04:40 PM

asgelle and pinky, thanks for the tips. Found some good info. If I can some good results I'll post up here

Flatballer 11-24-08 04:53 PM

My parents want to buy me something for Christmas. I don't really want anything right now except a power meter. I doubt they'll buy me something expensive.

Something I considered is asking them for an iBike, and then I can pair it with a PT (or Quark) that I buy next summer when I have money. Is the only iBike that can do the CdA thing the newest iAero III? Are there cheaper (older) versions that are still ANT+ compatible and can calculate the CdA when paired with a direct measurement power meter?

I might ask for a Garmin 705 instead, which I can pair with my power meter when I get it. The CdA would be cool though, maybe I'll buy something to do that with in a couple years.

I wish they'd just pick a number and give me some cash.

ridethecliche 11-24-08 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 7911102)
My parents want to buy me something for Christmas. I don't really want anything right now except a power meter. I doubt they'll buy me something expensive.

Something I considered is asking them for an iBike, and then I can pair it with a PT (or Quark) that I buy next summer when I have money. Is the only iBike that can do the CdA thing the newest iAero III? Are there cheaper (older) versions that are still ANT+ compatible and can calculate the CdA when paired with a direct measurement power meter?

I might ask for a Garmin 705 instead, which I can pair with my power meter when I get it. The CdA would be cool though, maybe I'll buy something to do that with in a couple years.

I wish they'd just pick a number and give me some cash.

The Ibike seems to have improved in this redesign or so they claim. For solo training, I think it might be a good option to go to. But a new ibike is the same price as a used pt (on open pro) so I'd just go for the PT instead!

tanhalt 11-24-08 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umd (Post 7908757)
I'm pretty sure all the software is already available. That's what Tom has been doing. Note that the iBike acts as the head unit so if someone got a Quarq, they could get the iBike instead of the Garmin, and the cost would be about the same. And you wouldn't need a Quarq, you could do it with the ANT+Sport PT as well.

Actually...all you really need is a powermeter and a spreadsheet.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/watt...direct-cda.pdf

The iAero +ANT Sport setup just lets you sort of do it "real time"...

substructure 11-24-08 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrundy (Post 7909283)
Use the configure device button in the cycleops software.

I also forgot how to use my brain.

ridethecliche 11-24-08 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by substructure (Post 7907997)
Well, I forgot how to put them back in. :o

That's what she said!

Wait, what?

Sorry, carry on ;)

Hida Yanra 11-24-08 07:08 PM

RTC - thanks for starting the thread.
*bookmarked*
I'm slow at getting any questions - but that's because my training is focused on running for the last weeks - but starting this weekend I'll be full of them.

kudude 11-25-08 01:41 AM

"fixed" my slope -- it was reading 15.9 Hz/Nm, but according to my 2 gallons of water, it should say between 19.9 and 20.2. I went with 20.2 so that later, I can get free power if I underestimated the mass of the 2 gallons of water + bottles. I had called SRM, and the last time they say the meter was more than 3 years ago, and the number they had in their system was 15.9. I'm pretty sure there has been some drift.

Using this new calibration I went out to do a recovery ride after the 3200kJ epicness that was yesterday's ride. I arbitrarily picked 200W as my max/average wattage. Going uphill at 200W is painfully boring, but as soon as the road turns down, it seems like I have to actually work to maintain that number. I guess that's why people around here stay out of the hills on recovery days.

btw, this puts my max 5s sprint UNDER 1000W, which makes me cry a little inside. "I" think i'm a sprinter, but my 5 and 20 minutes numbers are much better on the chart. I haven't actually gone out to test yet, I'm just taking the bests from my rides. Tomorrow I'm going to do one or two "WRI"s (tm) to get a 1m number that qualifies as something besides untrained

ridethecliche 11-25-08 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kudude (Post 7913577)
"fixed" my slope -- it was reading 15.9 Hz/Nm, but according to my 2 gallons of water, it should say between 19.9 and 20.2. I went with 20.2 so that later, I can get free power if I underestimated the mass of the 2 gallons of water + bottles.

So how did you measure out exactly 2 gallons of water?

What did you do, 1 gallon on each crank arm?

My unit was sent to SRM in march by the previous owner and the slope is 19.3.

kudude 11-25-08 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7913613)
So how did you measure out exactly 2 gallons of water?

What did you do, 1 gallon on each crank arm?

My unit was sent to SRM in march by the previous owner and the slope is 19.3.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-1724...B0399ACDC06%7D

tied a string through the handle of each one and hung them off the SAME crankarm (although doing it on both sides would provide me a balance of sorts).

C Law 11-28-08 12:57 PM

So I did my 20 minute test on my cycle ops fluid 2 trainer on wed.

Take a look at this graph please. Is it too upward sloping? I mean, did I hold back to much in the beginning and then hammer too much at the end?

It seemed like at around 10 minutes it just got easier to hold higher wattage. And then the last 5 I just went pretty much as hard as I could go , within reason

So, I guess my question is, was this a pretty good initial test?

the actual test is from 41-61 minutes


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ded/1126-2.jpg

ridethecliche 11-28-08 02:23 PM

So basically, you're not going to be at a loss if your FTP is a little lower than it actually is.

If you want, do a MAP test tomorrow and see if 72-75% of that wattage is close to 95% of your 20minute. If it is, then great, you're in the ballpark. You can retest in a month or so, but use the current number to structure workouts. If the 'hard' workouts seem too easy, then you know you've got something going.

Also, if you're holding 300+ for your 20 minute test, you're not warming up hard enough. Most of your warmup is in the sub 200 watt zone. You should be warming up in the 220-240 zone methinks.

Good test!

C Law 11-28-08 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7930813)
So basically, you're not going to be at a loss if your FTP is a little lower than it actually is.

If you want, do a MAP test tomorrow and see if 72-75% of that wattage is close to 95% of your 20minute. If it is, then great, you're in the ballpark. You can retest in a month or so, but use the current number to structure workouts. If the 'hard' workouts seem too easy, then you know you've got something going.

Also, if you're holding 300+ for your 20 minute test, you're not warming up hard enough. Most of your warmup is in the sub 200 watt zone. You should be warming up in the 220-240 zone methinks.

Good test!

Yeah, in retrospect I did not warm up 'hard' enough. But since it was my first test, I really didn't know what L2 was.

I was hoping it was a good starting point to structure some workouts from. I'll retest at the end of Jan. and see where I'm at.


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