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  1. #26
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    Include zeroes. For example, last year I did a crit @ 302w AP, 345w NP, and my PT (not including zeroes) reported something like 386w.

    It's not an accurate reflection of work done over time, as if you're coasting with 0 power a lot and sprinting the rest of the time the readings will be really goofy.
    Thanks Snuff.

  2. #27
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    TT position help? anyone?

    Don't make me make a thread with photos of me on the trainer...
    Velo Magazine/VeloNews.com tech guy get in touch or hit me on the tweeter @CaleyFretz

  3. #28
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    I thought I was suppose to NOT include zeros? What's right?
    Include zeros in averages. I only excluded them from the distribution chart I showed because there was a lot of descending/coasting and it obscured the bins in the distribution... the distribution shape is not affected by the zeros but the scale of the chart is...

  4. #29
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Include zeros in averages. I only excluded them from the distribution chart I showed because there was a lot of descending/coasting and it obscured the bins in the distribution... the distribution shape is not affected by the zeros but the scale of the chart is...
    Well, I forgot how to put them back in.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
    TT position help? anyone?

    Don't make me make a thread with photos of me on the trainer...
    If anything, your best bet is an Ibike since you'll get real time drag data if you use it with a powermeter.

    Perhaps go this route and then sell the ibike or hold onto it since it's going to be way cheaper than time in the tunnel. You could probably use it during a race to adjust if it gets gusty and such.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  6. #31
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    If anything, your best bet is an Ibike since you'll get real time drag data if you use it with a powermeter.

    Perhaps go this route and then sell the ibike or hold onto it since it's going to be way cheaper than time in the tunnel. You could probably use it during a race to adjust if it gets gusty and such.
    iBike & ANT+ powermeter (Quarq, SRM or PT) and you can determine your drag coeffient in different positions. It's a portable wind tunnel.

  7. #32
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    iBike & ANT+ powermeter (Quarq, SRM or PT) and you can determine your drag coeffient in different positions. It's a portable wind tunnel.
    i'd love to write that software. don't really have funds to buy all the necessary equipment, though
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  8. #33
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    yeah... no extra money so buying more equipment is pretty much out of the question. I use what is given to me.
    I was hoping someone had a protocol that had helped them find a good position, but I guess I'll just have to invent one on my own I'll let you all know how it goes.
    Velo Magazine/VeloNews.com tech guy get in touch or hit me on the tweeter @CaleyFretz

  9. #34
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    i'd love to write that software. don't really have funds to buy all the necessary equipment, though
    I'm pretty sure all the software is already available. That's what Tom has been doing. Note that the iBike acts as the head unit so if someone got a Quarq, they could get the iBike instead of the Garmin, and the cost would be about the same. And you wouldn't need a Quarq, you could do it with the ANT+Sport PT as well.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
    I was hoping someone had a protocol that had helped them find a good position, but I guess I'll just have to invent one on my own I'll let you all know how it goes.
    You might want to look in at the Wattage group at Google. There's been a lot of work done already and software is available.

  11. #36
    I am the cheese sgrundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    Well, I forgot how to put them back in.
    Use the configure device button in the cycleops software.

  12. #37
    Ink-Stained Wretch pinky's Avatar
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    ze, go to biketechreview.com and check out the forum. It will have the low down on aero testing.

  13. #38
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    asgelle and pinky, thanks for the tips. Found some good info. If I can some good results I'll post up here
    Velo Magazine/VeloNews.com tech guy get in touch or hit me on the tweeter @CaleyFretz

  14. #39
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    My parents want to buy me something for Christmas. I don't really want anything right now except a power meter. I doubt they'll buy me something expensive.

    Something I considered is asking them for an iBike, and then I can pair it with a PT (or Quark) that I buy next summer when I have money. Is the only iBike that can do the CdA thing the newest iAero III? Are there cheaper (older) versions that are still ANT+ compatible and can calculate the CdA when paired with a direct measurement power meter?

    I might ask for a Garmin 705 instead, which I can pair with my power meter when I get it. The CdA would be cool though, maybe I'll buy something to do that with in a couple years.

    I wish they'd just pick a number and give me some cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
    My parents want to buy me something for Christmas. I don't really want anything right now except a power meter. I doubt they'll buy me something expensive.

    Something I considered is asking them for an iBike, and then I can pair it with a PT (or Quark) that I buy next summer when I have money. Is the only iBike that can do the CdA thing the newest iAero III? Are there cheaper (older) versions that are still ANT+ compatible and can calculate the CdA when paired with a direct measurement power meter?

    I might ask for a Garmin 705 instead, which I can pair with my power meter when I get it. The CdA would be cool though, maybe I'll buy something to do that with in a couple years.

    I wish they'd just pick a number and give me some cash.
    The Ibike seems to have improved in this redesign or so they claim. For solo training, I think it might be a good option to go to. But a new ibike is the same price as a used pt (on open pro) so I'd just go for the PT instead!
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  16. #41
    Senior Member tanhalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    I'm pretty sure all the software is already available. That's what Tom has been doing. Note that the iBike acts as the head unit so if someone got a Quarq, they could get the iBike instead of the Garmin, and the cost would be about the same. And you wouldn't need a Quarq, you could do it with the ANT+Sport PT as well.
    Actually...all you really need is a powermeter and a spreadsheet.

    http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/watt...direct-cda.pdf

    The iAero +ANT Sport setup just lets you sort of do it "real time"...
    Last edited by tanhalt; 11-24-08 at 06:04 PM.

  17. #42
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgrundy View Post
    Use the configure device button in the cycleops software.
    I also forgot how to use my brain.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    Well, I forgot how to put them back in.
    That's what she said!

    Wait, what?

    Sorry, carry on
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  19. #44
    VeloSIRraptor
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    RTC - thanks for starting the thread.
    *bookmarked*
    I'm slow at getting any questions - but that's because my training is focused on running for the last weeks - but starting this weekend I'll be full of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  20. #45
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    "fixed" my slope -- it was reading 15.9 Hz/Nm, but according to my 2 gallons of water, it should say between 19.9 and 20.2. I went with 20.2 so that later, I can get free power if I underestimated the mass of the 2 gallons of water + bottles. I had called SRM, and the last time they say the meter was more than 3 years ago, and the number they had in their system was 15.9. I'm pretty sure there has been some drift.

    Using this new calibration I went out to do a recovery ride after the 3200kJ epicness that was yesterday's ride. I arbitrarily picked 200W as my max/average wattage. Going uphill at 200W is painfully boring, but as soon as the road turns down, it seems like I have to actually work to maintain that number. I guess that's why people around here stay out of the hills on recovery days.

    btw, this puts my max 5s sprint UNDER 1000W, which makes me cry a little inside. "I" think i'm a sprinter, but my 5 and 20 minutes numbers are much better on the chart. I haven't actually gone out to test yet, I'm just taking the bests from my rides. Tomorrow I'm going to do one or two "WRI"s (tm) to get a 1m number that qualifies as something besides untrained
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  21. #46
    Village Idiot
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    "fixed" my slope -- it was reading 15.9 Hz/Nm, but according to my 2 gallons of water, it should say between 19.9 and 20.2. I went with 20.2 so that later, I can get free power if I underestimated the mass of the 2 gallons of water + bottles.
    So how did you measure out exactly 2 gallons of water?

    What did you do, 1 gallon on each crank arm?

    My unit was sent to SRM in march by the previous owner and the slope is 19.3.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  22. #47
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    So how did you measure out exactly 2 gallons of water?

    What did you do, 1 gallon on each crank arm?

    My unit was sent to SRM in march by the previous owner and the slope is 19.3.


    tied a string through the handle of each one and hung them off the SAME crankarm (although doing it on both sides would provide me a balance of sorts).
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  23. #48
    Too Much Crazy
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    So I did my 20 minute test on my cycle ops fluid 2 trainer on wed.

    Take a look at this graph please. Is it too upward sloping? I mean, did I hold back to much in the beginning and then hammer too much at the end?

    It seemed like at around 10 minutes it just got easier to hold higher wattage. And then the last 5 I just went pretty much as hard as I could go , within reason

    So, I guess my question is, was this a pretty good initial test?

    the actual test is from 41-61 minutes


    Last edited by C Law; 11-28-08 at 03:50 PM.

  24. #49
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    So basically, you're not going to be at a loss if your FTP is a little lower than it actually is.

    If you want, do a MAP test tomorrow and see if 72-75% of that wattage is close to 95% of your 20minute. If it is, then great, you're in the ballpark. You can retest in a month or so, but use the current number to structure workouts. If the 'hard' workouts seem too easy, then you know you've got something going.

    Also, if you're holding 300+ for your 20 minute test, you're not warming up hard enough. Most of your warmup is in the sub 200 watt zone. You should be warming up in the 220-240 zone methinks.

    Good test!
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  25. #50
    Too Much Crazy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    So basically, you're not going to be at a loss if your FTP is a little lower than it actually is.

    If you want, do a MAP test tomorrow and see if 72-75% of that wattage is close to 95% of your 20minute. If it is, then great, you're in the ballpark. You can retest in a month or so, but use the current number to structure workouts. If the 'hard' workouts seem too easy, then you know you've got something going.

    Also, if you're holding 300+ for your 20 minute test, you're not warming up hard enough. Most of your warmup is in the sub 200 watt zone. You should be warming up in the 220-240 zone methinks.

    Good test!
    Yeah, in retrospect I did not warm up 'hard' enough. But since it was my first test, I really didn't know what L2 was.

    I was hoping it was a good starting point to structure some workouts from. I'll retest at the end of Jan. and see where I'm at.

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