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  1. #5201
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Joule is still new and default. I like screen one, power, HR (don't have a monitor though), cadence, speed, kJ, ride time, and max/avg of whichever. The time of day is on there too, in microscopic font on a dark background. So far I've been using it to inform me Im not feeling so hot lately. And I use it to my ride average at around 200 watts unless I decide I deserve less (usually last of 3 commutes in a day).

  2. #5202
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Everyone is different. The most important values for me are interval time and interval average power. I use the old Saris little yellow computer, and it's an easy device to use for these two. If I'm riding base though, I use 10s power most of the time, going for an "on" target and not worrying about the average other than a couple spot checks during the ride.
    This seems pretty logical, I may take my first week of power or so with this setup.
    "whenever I see someone biking faster than me, I assume they aren't going as far"-proscloset

  3. #5203
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    i'm willing to bet some of you would put out more power during your intervals if you didn't have your power numbers staring you in the face (there have been studies re this effect but i'm too lazy to look them up).

  4. #5204
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    I'm willing to bet that some would blow up and not finish an interval as they'd go out too hard.

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    i'm willing to bet some of you would put out less power during your intervals if you didn't have your power numbers staring you in the face (i dont know if there have been studies re this effect but would suspect it depends upon the individual and the duration of the interval).

  6. #5206
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    damn, check out the big brains on MDCatV!

  7. #5207
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    I agree with all 3. The key to doing intervals is finding the sweet spot between all 3 of those comments.

    For <20min Time Trials, I seem to err towards Mikey though, I really should ditch the power meter because I know I'd go harder. I set a power goal and am too rigid at sticking to it.
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

  8. #5208
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    (I'm not sure how useful this is, but it gets my mind off the pain during hill repeats...)

    When I'm doing ZCI™s, especially when I'm just getting started in a threshold phase, I will do the first 5' interval without power (set on max), and just pace it by feel. Then I use the resulting average from that effort as a target for the rest of the workout.

    Before I had a power meter, I did a lot of work on my RPE interpretation. I would do hill repeats with negative time splits. I got to the point that I could do six ~5' repeats consistently dropping time, but keeping all the times w/in 20s of each other, and that included an absolute all-out effort on the last one.

    I did a bit of coaching, and would take the athletes on hill repeat rides. For the inexperienced riders, I wanted to help them learn to pace, so I would ride next to them and try to get them to go a tiny bit easy on the first one. During this first climb, I dialed in my leg sensations so I could "play back" the effort for the remaining climbs. I was consistently able to pace them to the same kinds of times for the workout, ending with a really hard effort on their last one.

    I continued this pacing when I got a power meter, and found that my power was doing the same thing, very close, but always improving. Then I was able to dial it in even tighter using power. Once I'm in the hill repeat groove, I can shoot a tight group of repeats all w/in 10W of each other, each one 1-2W higher than the previous, ending with an all-out effort that slots right in at the top of the 10W range.

  9. #5209
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
    I agree with all 3. The key to doing intervals is finding the sweet spot between all 3 of those comments.

    For <20min Time Trials, I seem to err towards Mikey though, I really should ditch the power meter because I know I'd go harder. I set a power goal and am too rigid at sticking to it.
    Agreed. For many omnium tts cover the display and drope da hamma!!!!
    Many of them are very short in duration so go out as hard as possible. If you are racing you should have some idea of what you can do and how long you can do it.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  10. #5210
    soon to be gsteinc... rkwaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    (I'm not sure how useful this is, but it gets my mind off the pain during hill repeats...)

    When I'm doing ZCI™s, especially when I'm just getting started in a threshold phase, I will do the first 5' interval without power (set on max), and just pace it by feel. Then I use the resulting average from that effort as a target for the rest of the workout.

    Before I had a power meter, I did a lot of work on my RPE interpretation. I would do hill repeats with negative time splits. I got to the point that I could do six ~5' repeats consistently dropping time, but keeping all the times w/in 20s of each other, and that included an absolute all-out effort on the last one.

    I did a bit of coaching, and would take the athletes on hill repeat rides. For the inexperienced riders, I wanted to help them learn to pace, so I would ride next to them and try to get them to go a tiny bit easy on the first one. During this first climb, I dialed in my leg sensations so I could "play back" the effort for the remaining climbs. I was consistently able to pace them to the same kinds of times for the workout, ending with a really hard effort on their last one.

    I continued this pacing when I got a power meter, and found that my power was doing the same thing, very close, but always improving. Then I was able to dial it in even tighter using power. Once I'm in the hill repeat groove, I can shoot a tight group of repeats all w/in 10W of each other, each one 1-2W higher than the previous, ending with an all-out effort that slots right in at the top of the 10W range.
    Good post.
    I didn't realize until I had power how consistent my climbing was. I have a natural 'groove' that I climb in and seem to gravitate towards it all the time, similar gearing etc.
    "if you ride it the way it's meant to be ridden there's no way any wife is less of a ***** than a bicycle." - gstein

  11. #5211
    Banana Pancakes furiousferret's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info guys, the settings seem pretty broad and it doesn't appear there is a one size fits all setting. Appreciate all the input.

    IMO, the effect of staring at numbers can be different for everyone. For me, I blow up early on climbs, but can pace very well on flats. Having just bought a PM last week, it will be interesting to see how the numbers will help or hurt. I'm doing my local climb at lunch and it will be the first time with power. I'm going to keep it at a set number I hope to hold for 80% of the climb, then go ham at the end. RPE hasn't worked all too well in climbs, so we'll see how it goes.

  12. #5212
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    i'm willing to bet some of you would put out more power during your intervals if you didn't have your power numbers staring you in the face (there have been studies re this effect but i'm too lazy to look them up).
    I agree as someone new to the powermeter. Its as though the power numbers add to my pain, mentally. I assume I will get used to it like most other guys on here. When I start interval repeats I'll try both (looking and not looking).

  13. #5213
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
    I agree with all 3. The key to doing intervals is finding the sweet spot between all 3 of those comments.

    For <20min Time Trials, I seem to err towards Mikey though, I really should ditch the power meter because I know I'd go harder. I set a power goal and am too rigid at sticking to it.
    I actually typed that out (that I would likely do better without power for a single all out effort under 20 minutes). I then deleted it, thinking I wouldn't be taken seriously as a newb to power.

  14. #5214
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    I use the power data during efforts. I look at lap average and have the internal dialogue "you've already committed this much, just push through the end". It's also reassuring on days when you feel terrible to see decent numbers. It helps me disassociate from the discomfort. If I feel terrible and the numbers are bad, then I'm sick or overly fatigued and know to pull back.

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  15. #5215
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    So the other day I went to calibrate my power meter and it read 140...for the past month its been about 180-190. It was a bit chilly but nothing too crazy...

    I recalibrated it 3-4 more times throughout the ride and it was 135-145, nothing really changed. I dont get the huge dip though, it was seriously 180-190 consistently for the past few months.

    Anyone have any ideas? chainring bolts?
    -Cat-3-o-meter: 8/20

  16. #5216
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    So the other day I went to calibrate my power meter and it read 140...for the past month its been about 180-190. It was a bit chilly but nothing too crazy...

    I recalibrated it 3-4 more times throughout the ride and it was 135-145, nothing really changed. I dont get the huge dip though, it was seriously 180-190 consistently for the past few months.

    Anyone have any ideas? chainring bolts?
    You have a Riken too right?

    Mine shifts ranges every once in a while, similar to how yours shifted. Not sure why. But it's always stable around the new number after it shifts and it's just the new range for a while.
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

  17. #5217
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
    You have a Riken too right?

    Mine shifts ranges every once in a while, similar to how yours shifted. Not sure why. But it's always stable around the new number after it shifts and it's just the new range for a while.
    Yep Riken! Yeah I was going to say because I remember it was in the 70's and all of a sudden one day jumped to like 170 and stayed there for awhile. It's pretty stable around the new range!
    -Cat-3-o-meter: 8/20

  18. #5218
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    I agree as someone new to the powermeter. Its as though the power numbers add to my pain, mentally. I assume I will get used to it like most other guys on here. When I start interval repeats I'll try both (looking and not looking).
    Keep in mind that there's always the possibility that you have your FTP estimated incorrectly. Also, pushing through pain is one thing, but most of my workouts do not consist of work to failure, and to hit target zones does not mean that you have to hit the top of each zone. You get most of the desired adaptations right in the middle of the zone. If you're working the top of your zones all the time, and have a high FTP estimate, you're going to fail a lot, and it will be counterproductive to your training. Listen to your body, have a good idea of where you FTP is, and start your training blocks with your workouts in the middle of the target zone (if it's zone-based training), then adjust after a workout or two, if needed.

  19. #5219
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Keep in mind that there's always the possibility that you have your FTP estimated incorrectly. Also, pushing through pain is one thing, but most of my workouts do not consist of work to failure, and to hit target zones does not mean that you have to hit the top of each zone. You get most of the desired adaptations right in the middle of the zone. If you're working the top of your zones all the time, and have a high FTP estimate, you're going to fail a lot, and it will be counterproductive to your training. Listen to your body, have a good idea of where you FTP is, and start your training blocks with your workouts in the middle of the target zone (if it's zone-based training), then adjust after a workout or two, if needed.
    It is a possibility that FTP went down after so many easy/off weeks. But I did a group ride on Saturday with a 35 minute climb near the start. I kept it to what felt like a good bit less than FTP. Ended up being 275 watts, and previous FTP estimate was 320. Still, it was only 35 minutes, and after a few weeks of nothing my RPE was likely off. I could have been much closer to threshold. Then I had a few of these, which felt a good bit harder:
    Ow.PNG

    How often do you test? Are you fully rested for a 5 minute test? What about 1 minute?
    Last edited by aaronmcd; 11-19-13 at 04:47 PM.

  20. #5220
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Whenever I've tested FTP, I've always done it on an easy week leading into it.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: 8/20

  21. #5221
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    It is a possibility that FTP went down after so many easy/off weeks. But I did a group ride on Saturday with a 35 minute climb near the start. I kept it to what felt like a good bit less than FTP. Ended up being 275 watts, and previous FTP estimate was 320. Still, it was only 35 minutes, and after a few weeks of nothing my RPE was likely off. I could have been much closer to threshold. Then I had a few of these, which felt a good bit harder:
    Ow.PNG

    How often do you test? Are you fully rested for a 5 minute test? What about 1 minute?
    didn't you just get a power meter? If so, what's this previous estimate? If you think that the strava numbers are accurate, well, they arent

  22. #5222
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    Is anyone else following the TrainingPeaks pre-WKO-4 webinars?
    ...

  23. #5223
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    quarq in gam mode. Still rocking the pc7. #srmordie
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  24. #5224
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    didn't you just get a power meter? If so, what's this previous estimate? If you think that the strava numbers are accurate, well, they arent
    Yeah, I just got it. I calculated it from a constant 8% 20 minute climb. At 10 mph, CdA and Crr estimates have almost no impact. My bike weight could make a very slight difference. 20 minute vs 60 min power assumptions could be slightly off and timing wasn't perfectly accurate. It could be +/- 15 watts based on these issues.

  25. #5225
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    trust none of what you hear and half of what you see.

    estimated powers are hearsay at best, and can vary because of wind and error in estimated elevation.

    you may very well be at 300 W or another number higher than 275 W, but basing things off of an estimated wattage is fool's errand.

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