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  1. #5226
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
    It is a possibility that FTP went down after so many easy/off weeks. But I did a group ride on Saturday with a 35 minute climb near the start. I kept it to what felt like a good bit less than FTP. Ended up being 275 watts, and previous FTP estimate was 320. Still, it was only 35 minutes, and after a few weeks of nothing my RPE was likely off. I could have been much closer to threshold. Then I had a few of these, which felt a good bit harder:
    Attachment 351570

    How often do you test? Are you fully rested for a 5 minute test? What about 1 minute?
    I don't test threshold much any more, though I will be starting back up at the end of base this season. I've gotten to where I know the sensations and performance on various courses and workouts, so I can set my training zones pretty easily based on current performance. My standard zone setting test is MAP, although I'm thinking about going back to the 3' all-out CP test too...

    For a 5' test, it will be the first hard effort of the week. I'll warm up with tempo and a couple 1' efforts at my target power. For a 1' test, I do three or four all-out 10" sprints, until my peak power levels on those. Then the 1' test starts with that same effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    trust none of what you hear and half of what you see.

    estimated powers are hearsay at best, and can vary because of wind and error in estimated elevation.

    you may very well be at 300 W or another number higher than 275 W, but basing things off of an estimated wattage is fool's errand.
    Yep. It's too easy to game the estimates by riding hard on the steeps and recovering on the shallows. If you ride that way anyway, then your estimates can be quite high.

  2. #5227
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    So, I am reading through Allen/Coggan's book and was curious on how some of you judge your overall ride post analysis. For example, when I was training with RPE and heart rate and wanted to target a tempo ride than I would warm up to a point where my heart rate was ready and then just stay on target which was ~ in the 150s for me last season. After the ride, I would classify this as a tempo ride.

    Allen/Coggan-"a workout consisting of 30min active recovery,60min tempo and then another 30 min cool down/active recovery would best be described as a tempo session, even though the overall avg. power might fall within level 2."

    Now most days when I ride I am riding 2x2hrs. So these scheme works well but I am simply surprised that half of my ride could be in recovery and still be classified as tempo? So in this case if my threshold was 290watts than I could cruise for 30min at 140watts, tempo at 230watts for 60min, then 30 min at 140 watts and it would be classified as tempo.

    Now granted, 60 minutes of tempo could be much harder than I perceive, I am not sure but will know soon.


    The short and sweet of it is, I want to be correct when I see my avg. power over a given ride landing in zone2 and yet still be comfortable to classify it as a tempo workout.Given I followed the above.

  3. #5228
    cmh
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    So, I am reading through Allen/Coggan's book and was curious on how some of you judge your overall ride post analysis. For example, when I was training with RPE and heart rate and wanted to target a tempo ride than I would warm up to a point where my heart rate was ready and then just stay on target which was ~ in the 150s for me last season. After the ride, I would classify this as a tempo ride.

    Allen/Coggan-"a workout consisting of 30min active recovery,60min tempo and then another 30 min cool down/active recovery would best be described as a tempo session, even though the overall avg. power might fall within level 2."

    Now most days when I ride I am riding 2x2hrs. So these scheme works well but I am simply surprised that half of my ride could be in recovery and still be classified as tempo? So in this case if my threshold was 290watts than I could cruise for 30min at 140watts, tempo at 230watts for 60min, then 30 min at 140 watts and it would be classified as tempo.

    Now granted, 60 minutes of tempo could be much harder than I perceive, I am not sure but will know soon.


    The short and sweet of it is, I want to be correct when I see my avg. power over a given ride landing in zone2 and yet still be comfortable to classify it as a tempo workout.Given I followed the above.
    The answer here is to ignore your average power (or NP) for the entire ride. Your power for the 'workout' portion, in the case of your example, the 60 min. at tempo, is the meaningful number. For what it is worth, if you are time limited at all, a 30 min. warmup and cool down for 60 min tempo is a wasted 60 minutes. I don't really warm up for a tempo work out, it is tempo out the door, and tempo almost back to the door. Warm up is for more intense efforts.

  4. #5229
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmh View Post
    The answer here is to ignore your average power (or NP) for the entire ride. Your power for the 'workout' portion, in the case of your example, the 60 min. at tempo, is the meaningful number. For what it is worth, if you are time limited at all, a 30 min. warmup and cool down for 60 min tempo is a wasted 60 minutes. I don't really warm up for a tempo work out, it is tempo out the door, and tempo almost back to the door. Warm up is for more intense efforts.
    Thanks cmh. I should keep the questions to a minimum, I just realized I am only scratching the surface here
    2hrs will be easy to get, still set on warm up but I am going to understand a bit more before I work on a plan.
    Back to reading!

  5. #5230
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    change ride to be: 30 mins 70%, 60 min 85%, 30 min 70%. Better ratio. Or do what i do when i'm stuck indoors. 15 mins z2, 2x20 90-92%, then 5 minutes cool down.
    cat 1-o-meter: wtf am i doing??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You're not dumb. You're just less smart.

  6. #5231
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    I just noticed that one of the tabs of my Garmin has broken off. Since the back looks like a single piece of plastic, am I screwed?
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  7. #5232
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    Someone else on the forum broke that piece and Garmin is fixing it gratis IIRC, so you're probably not screwed...but you'll have to send it in and wait for them to send it back.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  8. #5233
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    garmin should sell or ship backplates. those tabs break a lot. I know 10 people, at a minimum.

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  9. #5234
    Senior Member KantoBoy's Avatar
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    I'm so tempted to jump in that Power2Max deal. $1106 Canadian for the Rotor 3D+BOR rings+5% Paypal discount.

    By far a better deal than Stages since they only cover 1 year warranty.

    Decisions decisions...

  10. #5235
    You blink and it's gone. rbart4506's Avatar
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    I rode my Garmin500 with only one tab on a BarFly with no issues, just saying...

    Now that I have the 800, I reserve the 500 for indoor duty...
    "On the other hand riding down a hill at 55 MPH wearing (essentially) women's underwear and a Styrofoam cup on your head is the epitome of rational life-extending decisions." - RacerEx

  11. #5236
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    garmin should sell or ship backplates. those tabs break a lot. I know 10 people, at a minimum.
    Do they all use aftermarket mounts?
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  12. #5237
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Do they all use aftermarket mounts?
    probably? Dunno, but seems like 90% of guys out here do.

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  13. #5238
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    probably? Dunno, but seems like 90% of guys out here do.
    So why should Garmin do anything special for those who choose to use an aftermarket mount? If I use one (I do) and I break the tab off the unit, I blame myself, and expect to pay the $89.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  14. #5239
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    So why should Garmin do anything special for those who choose to use an aftermarket mount? If I use one (I do) and I break the tab off the unit, I blame myself, and expect to pay the $89.
    Really?

    Garmin can take advantage of their customers and charge them what, 40% of the head unit original cost to change out a $1 part, or they could not be giant blood-sucking dicks and sell a replacement plastic piece. They should, because small things like that might make them less hated. The market is ripe for someone to make a decent knock-off that isn't Garmin, specifically because Garmin is greedy and difficult to work with.

    e.g. see the love for Quarq.

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  15. #5240
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    How is that taking advantage of their customers? The customer chose to violate the warranty and use an aftermarket part.

    Those greedy corporations. Can't have them making money. No siree.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  16. #5241
    Ninny globecanvas's Avatar
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    They should sell a replacement part. They can sell it for a profit, even. I don't think it's exactly an Occupy Wall Street position to say they would be a better company if they sold the replacement part.

  17. #5242
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    I have only ever used the Garmin-supplied mount and one of the tabs broke after 3 very well-used years. I don't mind paying the $89 because I have a feeling that the buttons are about to give out soon. The rubber covering has actually caved in on one of them. I bought a silicon cover to protect it from rain and dirt, but if I can get a refurbished one for $89, I'm not going to complain.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  18. #5243
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    The 3rd party mounts are identical to the one garmin makes, the only real difference is the aftermarket models expose the device a bit more.
    judging from what you post on here it seems having a powermeter has caused you to focus on ewang numbers without much a focus on developing actual fitness.

  19. #5244
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    No they are not the same.

    Garmin has every right to avoid having to provide end user support for self service. It would not be a bad idea for the next generation models to have a replaceable mount.
    My 10 speed Shimano sell-off is in the Classifieds-For Sale section.

  20. #5245
    You blink and it's gone. rbart4506's Avatar
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    My tab broke using their mount...

    I did not start using the BarFly until after and that was when I noticed that the 500 with only one tab sat much more securely on the aftermarket mount then it did the OEM mount.
    "On the other hand riding down a hill at 55 MPH wearing (essentially) women's underwear and a Styrofoam cup on your head is the epitome of rational life-extending decisions." - RacerEx

  21. #5246
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    How is that taking advantage of their customers? The customer chose to violate the warranty and use an aftermarket part.
    +1

    That said, I've never had a more unpleasant user experience with popular mobile electronics than I have with other people's Garmin stuff. Don't know if I could bring myself to buy anything of theirs, unless maybe I was building a plane in my garage (of course, I'm currently developing military MFD software myself, and would likely be picky there too).

  22. #5247
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    +1

    That said, I've never had a more unpleasant user experience with popular mobile electronics than I have with other people's Garmin stuff. Don't know if I could bring myself to buy anything of theirs, unless maybe I was building a plane in my garage (of course, I'm currently developing military MFD software myself, and would likely be picky there too).
    Some hotels still charge for wifi. Is it within their right? Sure. Does it make me want to stay there? Nope.

    Garmin could sell the backplates for $20, a minimum of 2000% markup and likely more than that, and it would still be an improvement over their current process.

    But hey, they can do whatever the **** they like, it's just poor form to treat your customers like the Mario coin banks.

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  23. #5248
    Senior Member 7bmwm3gtr's Avatar
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    Hey everyone for about 3 months I have been debating which power meter to get. It's quite an investment so I want to get it right so I'm hoping I can get a little feedback here.

    i'm considering the (a) Quarq Elsa, (b) Garmin vector, (c) Stages power meter mated to a new Cdale hollowgram.

    -Quarq Elsa is most expensive and I'd need to switch out the chainrings but it is loved by many people.
    -Vector is barely less expensive and it's new (could get cheaper)--but my pedals get pretty ugly after a while and I don't know if I can tolerate that with "$1600 pedals," plus that pod.
    -originally wanted to get the stages because then I'm forced to change my carbon fsa cranks to the hollowgram sl or even sisl2 (which is a favorable upgrade). It's also the cheapest option. However, I feel like the left leg only aspect will bother me...but I have seen good reviews.

    I've asked bike shops. The best thing they can say about any of them is "yeah it is a really popular model (quarq)" or "my cat 1 and 2 friends switched from a quarq to it (stages)." The vector was criticized, the shop guy told me he felt that there was a really fragile piece somewhere.

    Anyways I don't know who to ask since the bike shops I go to don't train or ride with power. So thanks in advanced for any feedback, I'd really appreciate it
    http://dbcyclingblog.blogspot.com *Last updated 2/25/2014*

  24. #5249
    Ninny globecanvas's Avatar
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    You're not going to go wrong with any of those three choices. The Vector is most portable, the Stages may be portable depending on what cranks you have on your other bikes, the Quarq is least portable. The Stages costs a lot less but you get less for the money, plus it is a less mature product. Choose whichever one best fits your needs and budget.

    I have a Quarq and a Stages. If I were buying another PM I would go with the Stages, no question, because to me the cost savings is huge compared to what I see as a small decrease in data quality (because of the left-only thing). In fact just today I almost impulse bought another Stages for my MTB. But you have to make up your own mind about the cost/benefit.

  25. #5250
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    Quote Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
    You're not going to go wrong with any of those three choices. The Vector is most portable, the Stages may be portable depending on what cranks you have on your other bikes, the Quarq is least portable. The Stages costs a lot less but you get less for the money, plus it is a less mature product. Choose whichever one best fits your needs and budget.

    I have a Quarq and a Stages. If I were buying another PM I would go with the Stages, no question, because to me the cost savings is huge compared to what I see as a small decrease in data quality (because of the left-only thing). In fact just today I almost impulse bought another Stages for my MTB. But you have to make up your own mind about the cost/benefit.
    I swap a Quarq between my bikes and it takes about 45 seconds each time. Not too big of an issue, you just need to make sure all of your bikes have the same BB type

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