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  1. #5276
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    Shouldn't some training be hard though? I mean, if racing is training, what does that make training?
    Harder.

  2. #5277
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
    It all depends where you are at in training. For a newer cyclist or someone coming off break or injury, ftp will change quite a bit. For me, my FTP has changed by 15 in just the past month, which completely changes my zones. For someone who has peaked it may not be all that important.

    Which leads me to this question, what ftp variance does a pro or cyclist who has reached their genetic potential have? I'm guessing the off season it is lower but by how much?
    My racing age is 57 so you could say my genetic potential has long been headed downhill. My FTP swings upwards of 50w.

  3. #5278
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    So Hunter Allen's 20min FTP test or Friel's 30min test? I don't plan of doing the 60min test. I am guessing the 20min will be better for me as a "first FTP test." Some locals have suggested going to a local coach and get it done indoors. I don't mind doing this but I see no reason not to do this on my own especially if I will be doing this every 4-6 weeks.

    My planned FTP course is ~2 hrs with very minimal stops. I have a small hill around 1~hr(sneed) and the overall course is slightly downhill. For the locals it's basically Hillsboro rd from 31 in springhill to Charlotte downtown(at 4am with no lights or traffic!) So I could fit in either test protocol and avoid or include the hill in either.(I understand these tests aren't two hours so I will be zone 1 coughing up a lung for the remainder of my ride )

    Since this is my commute in the I can repeat this anytime. That being said, how often are you guys doing FTP during base? My base is 12 weeks so I could do FTP between base 1,base2 and base 3 or I could just do FTP now and then after base in 12weeks? I'd rather do it more frequently as I expect quite a change. Then again, all of my base training is supposed to be below threshold so these FTP tests break the mold slightly.
    Shouldn't be that bad for the rest of the ride. I did my test on Saturday and was coughing up a lung for about 2 minutes. Felt alright except for the cold after that. Sure, it's intense, but 20 minutes is so damn short. My total was 2 hours and that is pretty short as well for a weekend. Much less stress than a typical 4 hour weekend ride with 2 or 3 long 85% to 90% ftp hills. So there are 2 bonuses to doing it on rest week: rested for an accurate test, and shorter ride for less training stress.

  4. #5279
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Harder.
    Right. So if timed correctly, I don't see how testing can be too much of a physical burden, it is after all, training. At least that's my take on it, but I'm new to all this power stuff.

  5. #5280
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I am exhausted after a test. Additional JRA is always optional. It's not whether I can do it, it's whether I want to do it. No use burning out.

  6. #5281
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    Friel suggests doing the test during build/base rest weeks, to see if you're actually progressing on building up your FTP, and to make sure your zones are correct.

    So any impact would be negligible since it's during a rest week.

    I don't think doing a test every 4 weeks during the race season would make sense though.
    I'd agree with all of that.

  7. #5282
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    just do your 20 minutes.

    if 20 minutes hard as you can ruins your week, you probably need to do a bunch more 20 mins at 100%.

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  8. #5283
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    just do your 20 minutes.

    if 20 minutes hard as you can ruins your week, you probably need to do a bunch more 20 mins at 100%.
    I'd say if 20 minutes at 100% ruins your week, ride more than zone 1 for a half hour a day. Riding multiple 3+ hour days in a row at 65% to 90% takes WAY more out of me. I felt fresh as a daisy the day after my 20' test.

  9. #5284
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys! Glad to see some good ole agreement in the 33
    "whenever I see someone biking faster than me, I assume they aren't going as far"-proscloset

  10. #5285
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    I picked up 15-20w by just having Quarq replace my faulty PM with a new one...amazing what that can do for you!
    HTFU

  11. #5286
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I am exhausted after a test. Additional JRA is always optional. It's not whether I can do it, it's whether I want to do it. No use burning out.
    I had to do some pace work after my recent test. It kinda sucked.

  12. #5287
    Banana Pancakes furiousferret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
    I picked up 15-20w by just having Quarq replace my faulty PM with a new one...amazing what that can do for you!
    I also find that I burn more calories if I leave my hrm at home; my garmin totals double.

  13. #5288
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    I was told by my coach that he clips my tests to show his other athletes what a proper FTP test should look like. Learn from the best, kids!










    Otoh, i put out weak sauce watts, so there's also that.

  14. #5289
    Banana Pancakes furiousferret's Avatar
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    Training Peaks has a beta now for their new software: http://app.trainingpeaks.com

    Tried the old version last month, didn't like the 90's retro feel. This one looks better.

  15. #5290
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    I tried the beta version yesterday too, I like it better than the old one.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  16. #5291
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
    I picked up 15-20w by just having Quarq replace my faulty PM with a new one...amazing what that can do for you!
    this is the kind of post where one realizes that accuracy matters.

    do the extra work to check the slope of your power meter. it will pay off in the future. it is why i favor meters where you can set (and update) slope.

  17. #5292
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    this is the kind of post where one realizes that accuracy matters.
    why is that? Zig, update your ftp in whatever software you're using and carry on.

    twitter.com/ygduf
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  18. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    why is that? Zig, update your ftp in whatever software you're using and carry on.
    if you are truly interested in the answer, a quick search will turn up several times i've answered this one.

    good data matters. it is not simply about adjusting software -- that is advice that sounds great to people who may be less informed about power but misses the long-term point.

  19. #5294
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    If you calibrate your SRM and find it was reading 7w low, do you go back and adjust your rides between today and your last calibration, assuming an increasing linear offset of error?

    Or do you just adjust your **** going forward and live with the marginal errors.

    We both know power numbers aren't going to win races, they are for training. How "important" can they be.

    I assume we disagree. I don't put power on my primary screen when racing, though, so that shows my perspective on this.

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  20. #5295
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    If you find errors in calibration, it won't be 7 watts low, constant across the board. Rather it will be a certain percentage off from the true slope.

    Being 7 watts low means your zero point is off by 7 watts, and you can do whatever you want with it.

  21. #5296
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    watt fight
    watt fight

  22. #5297
    illusoryly superior Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    watt fight
    watt fight

    can you believe I'm advocating for racing and not watts?!

    believe it! I know you think I'm addicted to e-wang for some reason, but I firmly believe consistency is key for training, and racing will sort the rest out.

    twitter.com/ygduf
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  23. #5298
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    watt fight
    watt fight
    Wattever, old man

  24. #5299
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    can you believe I'm advocating for racing and not watts?!

    believe it! I know you think I'm addicted to e-wang for some reason, but I firmly believe consistency is key for training, and racing will sort the rest out.
    Don't be so coy. The racing thing is a red herring a far as slope accuracy is concerned. You can have an accurate PM and not worry about watts in a race. Who'd have thought

  25. #5300
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
    can you believe I'm advocating for racing and not watts?!
    No. Watts the ransom demand?

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