procrit

It seems regardless of my TSB, if I do back to back 150 TSS rides, my legs are dead. A month ago I did 5x5's, then a 2hr SST session the next day, and I was totally wiped for 2 days. This week I tried 3x20's (got 2x20, then a short interval before I had to get home), then a near 2hr SST session the next day, and the following day (yesterday) I was totally worthless and today still feel pretty worn down. My TSB says I'm only -5 today, Even though I feel like -30, and yesterday felt like -50.

First thought was my FTP was set too high, but it's only 305, and I can throw down 325 watts for 20 minutes no problem, and have gone over 300 watts for an hour without much problem.

NomadVW 

^^^^
Aerobic Base ( aka CTL ).

CTL is greatly indicative of your recovery ability from training stress. Middle of January with a CTL in the 70's, I'd be spent on Monday after riding 3 hrs on Sat and 3-4 hrs on Sunday.

With a CTL in the 120's, I regularly do 4 days per week of TSS over 180. (Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun) Two of those days are threshold+ workouts, and two are long rides (4-5+ hrs) if I'm not racing on the weekend.

If you're carrying a lower CTL, then the amount of ride time outside of actual intensity should be minimized.

Eg.
CTL of 70 = 2x20's @ 95-100% with 15 min warm up, 5-10 min rest, 15 min cool down.
CTL of 120 = 3x20's @ 91-95% with 20-30 min warm up, 3-5 min rest, 60 min L2 post ride. (Though, when I'm carrying a higher CTL, I tend to move away from the structured intervals and into steady state SST for longer periods, 90-120 min with 30 min on either side.)

Both of these workouts will net you roughly the same threshold time, but the overall ride TSS is drastically different. The purpose of carrying the higher CTL only serves to provide greater recovery from higher efforts. (I also find that it flattens my power curve beyond that hour mark)

If you're consistently racing back-to-back days, stage races, or simply want to be able to ride longer races, then the higher CTL is going to be of great help. If you're riding 60-75 minute races all the time, then there's just no need to do it (again, unless you want to).

Also, while FTP has a bearing on TSS it should be noted that no matter what it is set at, your performance management chart will essentially ignore whether it's set too high or low. TSB is simply the difference between ATL and CTL.

I rarely change my FTP for TSS calculation. I know that as FTP goes up, my TSS values inflate slightly - but not significantly - and has an even less significant effect on the increase/decrease of ATL/CTL.

For instance, my FTP is currently "set" at 345. I'm riding consistent 1 hour efforts at pNorm 363-365 now two days a week sandwiched between a 90 min L2 and 30 minute cool down. I estimate TSS @ 360-365 for "ewang" purposes. Here's the difference in TSS:

3 hr @ 260, FTP @ 345 - 170 TSS
3 hr @ 260, FTP @ 365 - 152 TSS

Difference in effect to CTL @ a CTL of 120.38.

FTP 345: +~1.2
FTP 365: +~.8

The difference between the two TSB values is ~2 points.

The less TSS you're performing, the less this is going to alter CTL, and TSB as well. This further indicates the individuality of the ATL/CTL/TSB model. This is why when I hear UMD say he's carrying 150+ CTL at times, I don't really raise an eyebrow anymore. You can typically glean more from the question "How many hours a week are you riding?" than you can from asking what someone's CTL is.

edited to add: didn't mean this to "call out" UMD for having a CTL of 150+, but more of an example based on the debate over his CTL from last year that went on for some time.

procrit

Thanks for the info. It's got to be the low CTL and individuality of the CTL/ATL/TSB model where I am getting discrepancies. That's probably why basing how I 'should' feel on the out-of-the-box model is sometimes off compared to how I actually feel.

Thanks for the help.

kudude

2:35 w/ an IF of 0.942. Once again, I think my ftp is too low. I need to do a MAP test, but just don't feel like it.

Peak 60 min NP was within 2W of the NP for the entire ride. I pretty much hammered the whole thing, except for the downhills. Now I'm a bit beat.

ridethecliche

Dude, map tests aren't a big deal.

They take like 30 mins from warm up to finish and you can ride the next day or even that day no issue.

Just download the program that times/tells you wattages.

I'll do mine after I can ride again.

kudude

why can't you ride?

I also don't have a trainer, so I need to do it on the open road. 20 minutes of continuous slight uphill is around. Increase the wattage how much and how often? The end is when you can't go up any more, yeah?

waterrockets 

Here's the test: https://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?...=70&Itemid=112

ridethecliche

Took a recovery ride on weds, and apparently I have bad technique when I'm riding easy.

Achilles tendonitis on right foot. Taking off till atleast tuesday to rest/ice the tendon. I'll ride on tues and re evaluate. I had a 430 tss week between tues-thurs anyway. So I'll let my body heal and recover and go back for the last build week before the pre road race taper the week after.

I really hope this issue is resolved by tues. I just have to make sure I don't do anything stupid till then.

Nate552

Had my first "detonation" with the Power Tap. So far I've done 5 rides with it, just playing around, doing my normal training rides to see what I've been doing, etc. Today I did the Sat morning ride with our club. About a mile from the sprint I had to burn some matches, and eventually blew up when it was only me and 3 Cat 3's left (I'm a 4). I haven't done the official test to figure out my FTP but right now I have it estimated at somewhere around 205 - 220. And before you laugh I am 125 lbs . So based on a match being at least a over a minute at 20% over your ftp, I found the matches before I blew. So, would you consider the 3 matches grouped together 1 or 3 matches? I'm also looking at my power profile from the ride and figuring my ftp guess isn't that far off. What do you think? ( I know, I know do the test. That comes next week )

velocycling

So looking a the bottom of the page. If you say the 40k TT is approx. 1 hour effort, does that mean
40.2 km TT 72 77 %MAP = to your FTP?

waterrockets 

It's a rough estimate. the FTP range is 72-77%. The middle is 74.5%.

My MAP is 500W right now, but my FTP is probably only about 355W (71% of MAP). If you have a high AWC, you'll be on the lower end of the scale (my 1' power is throwing my AWC way up). If your AWC is low, then you'll be on the high end of the scale.

Erik B

Importing files, or trying to.

This is the problem.

I can not figure out how to get the choose athlete box to populate so nothing that I try to import actually works.


I'm aware that I'm to fat for this sport and as a bonus pretty weak as well, but that is another topic.

Dubbayoo

I believe you should be on the calendar tab then drag the imported file onto the date in question; then do FILE / SAVE.

Erik B

Still no joy.
Can't get to the file save because the athlete box isn't populated.

timster

What the heck happened to this section of my ride? Did the hub stop transmitting for a little while?

umd

Well your power and cadence went to zero and then your speed, and then there is a blank minute, and then a large power spike, your speed and cadence begin to rise, and your HR rises from lower than where it had stopped... looks like you stopped at a light or something...

Apus^2

Stop light?

timster

Could be, I guess. I don't remember exactly where I was at that point in my ride. I thought PT just recorded moving time? Most of my stop lights look like this:



edit: I think I figured it out. My previous rides that were uploaded to PowerAgent, then imported to WKO (like this one) don't have the time gap. My recent rides that were imported right to WKO (like the other one) have the gap. Seems to be just a software difference.

dave99ag

I get those gaps as well when I'm stopped. I guess if you change the recording setting to HR you would get steady data versus using speed.

NomadVW 

You stopped at a stop light. It stopped recording. (Wasn't just the hub since your speed dropped to zero and HR stopped recording as well)

edited..
no fair.. i didn't see the responses on the next page. guess i was a little late on the uptake

NomadVW 

yah.. but then you'd have to wear your HRM. I haven't done that in months

mattm

[edit: oops, wrong thread]

Dubbayoo

My FTP has really gone up since I got my Polar. By the end of summer I should be able to hang with the Cat5 women.

ridethecliche

Lol.

Dubbayoo

When you guys export a CSV file from Trainingpeaks does it have mileage info in it? Mine never do even though it's in the WKO file. I get speed but not distance.