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  1. #5826
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Btw I'm thinking WKO 4.0 (that will supposedly run on a Mac) is the latest cycling-related vaporware...

    They said December 10th last year, but that just ended up being the release of their web stuff. 4.0 is supposedly in "beta testing" but I'm really starting to wonder what's up with this. link

    Or is it out and I'm just an idiot and can't find the link??
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  2. #5827
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    I check the SRM when I start and then again about 30 minutes in, if I see the thermometer change a bit. It usually does so I check and it's usually off a bit. After that I've checked and it's been on or +/- 1 or so. I've left it alone after a number of those later checks.

    I imagine it's a temperature thing? I know the SRM goes way off if I go through a 30 degree change from inside to out it isn't happy, like the 65 degree basement to 95 degrees outside, or the basement to a 35 degree outside.
    "...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson

  3. #5828
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    Thanks all. I noticed it initially when I coasted briefly to fix a shoe or something, then it became something I fixated on, like "which is the correct power"
    This is my first season training with power and I admit that I am being a bit compulsive about it.

    I did a ride last night without the resistance, and there didn't seem to be any drift associated with that workout, so I feel more secure knowing that the issue was probably with the mag resistance heating.

    Going forward i don't know if I will just leave the resistance off (assuming I can hit my target power) or turn it back on and continue to zero during the ride to compensate for the drift.

    For the record, I am in the basement, riding at about 60 degrees. There isn't an abrupt change in temperature, just that associated with the friction during the training ride.

  4. #5829
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    PSA for anyone seeking a Stages. Saw a Dura Ace 7900 175mm for sale. Guy is upgrading to 9000. Message me for contact info if ya want.

  5. #5830
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm View Post
    Btw I'm thinking WKO 4.0 (that will supposedly run on a Mac) is the latest cycling-related vaporware...

    They said December 10th last year, but that just ended up being the release of their web stuff. 4.0 is supposedly in "beta testing" but I'm really starting to wonder what's up with this. link

    Or is it out and I'm just an idiot and can't find the link??
    100% vaporware or if it is released it'll be like Duke Nukem Forever...aka suckass
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  6. #5831
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I'm so used to running my cycling stuff through parallels I'm not sure I can wrap my head around switching.

  7. #5832
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I'm so used to running my cycling stuff through parallels I'm not sure I can wrap my head around switching.
    Yeah I should just go that route.. so you run WKO 3.0 via Parallels and it works fine?

    The only reason I use my Windows machine at home currently is for WKO..
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  8. #5833
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    correct. when I bought a power meter 4 or 5 seasons ago it was the only viable option. it all works seamlessly. device agent to DL, and WKO for analysis. It's the only thing I run windows for.

  9. #5834
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    I have used WKO for a few months now and am still figuring out a lot of its features. One feature I can not find (do not even know if it exists) pertains to laps. Say I do a 2x20 workout and make each 20' interval a lap with my Garmin. The laps are separated onto WKO and I can easily view them individually. For average power on the lap, I can only find the actual average watt. Is there not an option to change this to a % of FTP value? Yes, I can always calculate it and whatnot, but for most of my pacing during intervals, I am following a % value on my Garmin screen and not an actual range of watts.

  10. #5835
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oespinoza83 View Post
    I have used WKO for a few months now and am still figuring out a lot of its features. One feature I can not find (do not even know if it exists) pertains to laps. Say I do a 2x20 workout and make each 20' interval a lap with my Garmin. The laps are separated onto WKO and I can easily view them individually. For average power on the lap, I can only find the actual average watt. Is there not an option to change this to a % of FTP value? Yes, I can always calculate it and whatnot, but for most of my pacing during intervals, I am following a % value on my Garmin screen and not an actual range of watts.
    You can see the IF for a lap/segment, which is NP/FTP; what I think you want is AP/FTP, which I don't think is shown anywhere in WKO.
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  11. #5836
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Hi, all.

    Does anyone here use Wahoo Fitness for speed, cadence, and possibly power data?

    A Wahoo rep wrote this on DC Rainmaker's site:

    We have 100% lossless data. Our database stores the raw accumulative values sent over ANT+. This is different to most head units that take samples at a given frequency.

    When we export, we normalise the data over a 1 second sample rate, this method is particularly important when looking at power data as sampling instant power can give very different values.
    I'm hoping to get a sample (non normalized) raw file to see how much data I'd receive. I don't need speed, cadence, AND power in the file. Just one of those will suffice for my analysis. Can anyone offer me a small file to view before I invest in this product?

    Thanks!

    Carleton

  12. #5837
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    PSA for anyone seeking a Stages. Saw a Dura Ace 7900 175mm for sale. Guy is upgrading to 9000. Message me for contact info if ya want.
    I can't send PMs yet, but am interested in saving a little on an already-broken-in Stages. Would you mind PMing me the contact info? Thanks!

  13. #5838
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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  14. #5839
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Hi, all.

    Does anyone here use Wahoo Fitness for speed, cadence, and possibly power data?

    A Wahoo rep wrote this on DC Rainmaker's site:



    I'm hoping to get a sample (non normalized) raw file to see how much data I'd receive. I don't need speed, cadence, AND power in the file. Just one of those will suffice for my analysis. Can anyone offer me a small file to view before I invest in this product?

    Thanks!

    Carleton
    PM me.

    FWIW, i used it while having it in my pocket. Power (and cadence) transmission seem fine. Speed data less so. HR data were all over the place as my jersey was open. Actually may have a side-by-side file i could send you. Their output data also leaves something to be desired as it takes a lot of parsing just to get the data you need.

    THough you could technically have the recorded info outputted into 4 different formats, three of them don't work, and the one that does (CSV) requires a lot of unit conversions... Only had to use it b/c my Garmin was out of commission.

  15. #5840
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShutUpLegs View Post
    Okay guys may be a dumb question, but today had my first experience on a Wahoo Kickr and I loved it. I don't currently have any form of power. So my question is, only have money right now for one, do I invest in a Kickr or is it more beneficial to invest in Crank based PM like SRM, Quarq or P2M. I do have Cycleops fluid trainer, but the Kickr was so smooth and on Erg mode (Sufferfest Video)you just had to pedal and not concentrate on your power as much. I spend a good amount of time year round on the trainer to get in specific workouts.
    Depends how much indoor riding you do. If you live somewhere that forces you to be inside for most of the winter, then the Kickr hands down, but ONLY if you use trainerroad. TrainerRoad controlling the watts using the Kickr's erg mode is a total, complete game changer.

  16. #5841
    Senior Member Tyrell's Avatar
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    Suppose I'm in the middle of doing a ZeCanon workout (6x5x1 @ 103-108%) and I'm seeing my avg power drop interval to interval, after interval 2. At what point should I stop this over-threshold "pull" interval workout and call it a day? When I can't hold my FTP for the 5 minutes? When avg power drops x% below target?

    For example, let's say these were the numbers:
    Lap 1: 298
    Lap 2: 300
    Lap 3: 287
    Lap 4: 284
    Lap 5: 281
    Lap 6: 267

  17. #5842
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrell View Post
    Suppose I'm in the middle of doing a ZeCanon workout (6x5x1 @ 103-108%) and I'm seeing my avg power drop interval to interval, after interval 2. At what point should I stop this over-threshold "pull" interval workout and call it a day? When I can't hold my FTP for the 5 minutes? When avg power drops x% below target?

    For example, let's say these were the numbers:
    Lap 1: 298
    Lap 2: 300
    Lap 3: 287
    Lap 4: 284
    Lap 5: 281
    Lap 6: 267
    I don't know if this has been discussed before for this workout. Friel says something about scrapping workouts after the 3rd interval? If I'm failing in this workout, it varies. Sometimes I know I'm off on the first one, so I'll drop my target for the second one to the bottom of my threshold zone, and see what I can do. If I'm further into the workout, and really not able to continue at any threshold kind of power, I add up remaining workout time (work + recovery) and go at tempo for that time, then do whatever I was planning to after the set.

    Sometimes, the first interval is a bit tough, but the second interval should always be pretty easy, making you wish you'd chosen a slightly higher target. Third interval should be an awakening, where you know you're in for it, but feel it's possible. The last three are the business end of the workout.

  18. #5843
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    PM me.

    FWIW, i used it while having it in my pocket. Power (and cadence) transmission seem fine. Speed data less so. HR data were all over the place as my jersey was open. Actually may have a side-by-side file i could send you. Their output data also leaves something to be desired as it takes a lot of parsing just to get the data you need.

    THough you could technically have the recorded info outputted into 4 different formats, three of them don't work, and the one that does (CSV) requires a lot of unit conversions... Only had to use it b/c my Garmin was out of commission.
    I just sent you a PM.

    Of the 4 file formats, the one I'm looking for is the native ".WF" (Wahoo Fitness?) file format. It is my understanding that all of the other files are derived from that original one. The .WF file has the raw recorded data at a rate faster that 1 per second.

  19. #5844
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    I don't know if this has been discussed before for this workout. Friel says something about scrapping workouts after the 3rd interval? If I'm failing in this workout, it varies. Sometimes I know I'm off on the first one, so I'll drop my target for the second one to the bottom of my threshold zone, and see what I can do. If I'm further into the workout, and really not able to continue at any threshold kind of power, I add up remaining workout time (work + recovery) and go at tempo for that time, then do whatever I was planning to after the set.

    Sometimes, the first interval is a bit tough, but the second interval should always be pretty easy, making you wish you'd chosen a slightly higher target. Third interval should be an awakening, where you know you're in for it, but feel it's possible. The last three are the business end of the workout.
    I know hunter and coggan's book talk about when to stop intervals (But its a bit difficult to compare what they are describing when they talk about 5 minute efforts to a zecannon workout. Once you're under threshold i would stop)
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  20. #5845
    Senior Member Tyrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Friel says something about scrapping workouts after the 3rd interval?
    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    I know hunter and coggan's book talk about when to stop intervals (But its a bit difficult to compare what they are describing when they talk about 5 minute efforts to a zecannon workout. Once you're under threshold i would stop)
    My gut told me I should probably stop once I couldn't hold above threshold but my head reasoned that going under would just be a "push" workout vs. a "pull" workout and therefore still have some value. Although, I believe push intervals should be longer than 5' to really make any kind of impact...a-la 2x20'. My legs of course told me to cut this crap out and go eat something but what do they know...

  21. #5846
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrell View Post
    Suppose I'm in the middle of doing a ZeCanon workout (6x5x1 @ 103-108%) and I'm seeing my avg power drop interval to interval, after interval 2. At what point should I stop this over-threshold "pull" interval workout and call it a day? When I can't hold my FTP for the 5 minutes? When avg power drops x% below target?

    For example, let's say these were the numbers:
    Lap 1: 298
    Lap 2: 300
    Lap 3: 287
    Lap 4: 284
    Lap 5: 281
    Lap 6: 267
    I've had elite coaches tell me to stop after the first interval where the power starts dropping below what is expected. The work you do after that point won't help you and it may actually "dig a hole" for you. Meaning that you are either:
    - At risk of dipping into overreaching/over-training territory, or
    - Simply not rested enough for that type of effort, or
    - You are coming down with an illness.

    Which may affect your freshness for the next day's workout.

    Either way, shut it down when the numbers drop. I've never seen them rise, drop, then rise again between intervals. They rise, drop, then continue dropping.
    Last edited by carleton; 02-13-14 at 04:16 PM.

  22. #5847
    Senior Member Tyrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I've had elite coaches tell me to stop after the first interval where the power starts dropping below what is expected. The work you do after that point won't help you and it may actually "dig a hole" for you. Meaning that you are either:
    - At risk of dipping into overreaching/over-training territory, or
    - Simply not rested enough for that type of effort, or
    - You are coming down with an illness.

    Which may affect your freshness for the next day's workout.

    Either way, shut it down when the numbers drop. I've never seen them rise, drop, then rise again between intervals. They rise, drop, then continue dropping.
    Thank you for sharing! I think I'll heed the elite coaches' advice.

  23. #5848
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    I've never seen them rise, drop, then rise again between intervals. They rise, drop, then continue dropping.
    This happened to me on Monday. It was: 315, 297, 310, 305, 320, 325. The lower ones were below target (312), and felt pretty bad, but I wasn't pushing it to target "at any cost," and I wasn't dying at 297. I was going off of RPE to see if I could pick a power I could finish the workout with, even if it was slightly below threshold. Then I snapped out of it somehow and finished strong, with an average of... 312.

    Two days later (Wed), I ran 320 6x, with an intended target of 315. I felt too good halfway through the first one, and re-set my target, and I was right. Everyone is different, and I think the elite coach advice would have cheated me out of a full threshold workout. That said, one workout isn't likely to change anyone's season.

    So, like everything else around here, "it depends." I've done a TON of ZCI™ workouts though, and I know how to pick my way through them in many different situations.

  24. #5849
    Senior Member aaronmcd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrell View Post
    Suppose I'm in the middle of doing a ZeCanon workout (6x5x1 @ 103-108%) and I'm seeing my avg power drop interval to interval, after interval 2. At what point should I stop this over-threshold "pull" interval workout and call it a day? When I can't hold my FTP for the 5 minutes? When avg power drops x% below target?

    For example, let's say these were the numbers:
    Lap 1: 298
    Lap 2: 300
    Lap 3: 287
    Lap 4: 284
    Lap 5: 281
    Lap 6: 267
    According to Hunter Allen, 5%-7% drop after 3rd interval for 5' intervals. But like jsut said, ZCI's may be different.
    Hell, I think I'd be under threshold with that much of a drop after #3 (I personally haven't tried ZCIs).

    http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/training...is-enough.html
    Last edited by aaronmcd; 02-14-14 at 12:32 PM.

  25. #5850
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    Some interesting points on training with power here. Good quick read.:

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/...raining_317206
    Category 2 | | Velogames BikeForums Leagues: 1st - 2012 Veulta, 1st - 2011 Vuelta, 2nd - 2013 Vuelta, 3rd - 2012 Giro, 4th - 2012 TdF

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