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  1. #601
    umd
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    Stomp test

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    either my fitness is off, or my ptap is. 245W for 20 minutes during a race --and i was at my limit. my ftp is 270w

    how do I test this
    this sounds familiar to me; in a crit, there's lot's of unpowered cornering that will drop the power averages versus an FTP test which is a constant 20-60m effort depending on protocol used; the crit is like intervals with very little rest time between them - at least that's how it felt to me yesterday when I was begging to be pulled for a few laps;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
    Hit a new personal best last night on the local training ride! My 5 sec power has been hovering in the Cat 5 area of the graph, so I've focused on it the last 2 weeks. Now it's mid cat 3 on the graph.
    Sweet.

    So...how'd you do it? My 5 sec blows and I'd like to move mine up too.

  4. #604
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerhymeswith View Post
    this sounds familiar to me; in a crit, there's lot's of unpowered cornering that will drop the power averages versus an FTP test which is a constant 20-60m effort depending on protocol used; the crit is like intervals with very little rest time between them - at least that's how it felt to me yesterday when I was begging to be pulled for a few laps;
    this was a RR. my NP for a 32 minute crit yesterday was 250 (AP 236, VI 1.06). maybe it's right, but I'd love to check. I can't see anywhere on the poweragent software to calibrate anything other than turning on auto zero-ing of the hub. Can anyone give me specifics on finding out if I got super weak?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  5. #605
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    this was a RR. my NP for a 32 minute crit yesterday was 250 (AP 236, VI 1.06). maybe it's right, but I'd love to check. I can't see anywhere on the poweragent software to calibrate anything other than turning on auto zero-ing of the hub. Can anyone give me specifics on finding out if I got super weak?
    Like umd said, stomp test.


    Technically, the PowerTap cannot be user-calibrated, but its accuracy can be checked using a simple test that is similar to the SRM calibration check. First, check that the transmission icon is on, and if not, give the rear wheel a spin. Then, enter the torque mode by holding the “Select” button down for 2 seconds or longer (the “WATTS” designation will disappear from the top line.) Apply the rear brake sufficiently to lock up the rear wheel. Now, measure torque as follows: with the cranks exactly horizontal (right crank at 3 o’clock), hang a known weight of at least 50 lbs from the right crank, or simply stand on it – hence the name ‘stomp test’! Measured torque = (weight in lbs) × (crank length in mm) × (1 in/25.4 mm) × (cog teeth/chainring teeth). For a 159 lb rider standing on a 175 mm crank, with the chain on the 39 tooth ring and the 23 tooth cog, 159 lbs × 175 mm × 1 in/25.4 mm × 23/39 = 646 in-lbs. Compare this to the displayed value by calculating % error as (measured torque - displayed torque)/measured torque.

  6. #606
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljrichar View Post
    Like umd said, stomp test.
    so I take it the procedure is to wave my hands at my bike and chant 'stomp test' 3 times?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

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    when i enter rides manually from bikes with no power measuring capability, the Power Dist and HR Dist charts for last 28 days have outlandish spikes in them which ruins the charts

    anybody else dealt with this?

  8. #608
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    so I take it the procedure is to wave my hands at my bike and chant 'stomp test' 3 times?
    Don't forget to click your heels together!

  9. #609
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    so I take it the procedure is to wave my hands at my bike and chant 'stomp test' 3 times?
    ljrichar posted the procedure. I was on my phone, I figured you could google the details.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikerhymeswith View Post
    when i enter rides manually from bikes with no power measuring capability, the Power Dist and HR Dist charts for last 28 days have outlandish spikes in them which ruins the charts

    anybody else dealt with this?
    Don't enter power and HR for those rides. Create a manual entry for the time & distance and then override the TSS if you want your PMC to be correct

    Quote Originally Posted by SushiJoe View Post
    Don't forget to click your heels together!
    That too

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    so I take it the procedure is to wave my hands at my bike and chant 'stomp test' 3 times?
    http://www.midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm#Q23

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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Don't enter power and HR for those rides. Create a manual entry for the time & distance and then override the TSS if you want your PMC to be correct
    that worked....thanks

  12. #612
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    sorry guys. That's one situation where "search n00b" would have been appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  13. #613
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    PowerTap has been flaky the last couple of rides (reading ~40 watts too low across ranges and downloading nonsensical data). I asked around and finally called Saris. Their advice:

    Quote Originally Posted by Saris Support View Post
    ...continue pushing Mode until you get to test mode 5 (a 5 will be off on the middle left). As mentioned, an ideal calibration would be showing 0 - 512 - 512, however having the bottom two numbers anywhere within 500-524 is still good.
    So I did this and my numbers were 0 - 531 - 532. I think this could be the cause. Although I'm not quite sure what this calibration measures. Anyone here know?

  14. #614
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SushiJoe View Post
    So I did this and my numbers were 0 - 531 - 532. I think this could be the cause. Although I'm not quite sure what this calibration measures. Anyone here know?
    from an older manual on the web, that seems to have hit as option 6 instead of 5 -
    Quote Originally Posted by 366.pdf
    6- Torque information. (Note the T icon is displayed.)
    This displays information about the internal workings of the torque readings. The bottom display
    is the offset torque value directly sent by the hub torque with no correction applied. The hub
    sends a value of approximately 512 as the zero point. The middle line display is the correctionoffset
    value currently stored in the CPU. This is the value that is changed when you do a manual
    zeroing of the torque. The top display is the corrected actual torque (the bottom value minus
    the middle value).

  15. #615
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
    from an older manual on the web, that seems to have hit as option 6 instead of 5 -
    Thanks for the post! He did say that if the numbers were off, it could signify something amiss with the hub. We'll continue to troubleshoot.

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    i played around some more with manual entries and I'm not happy with the results; as soon as you put in an intensity factor then a constant average power is calculated and then there is a spike in the power distribution chart; if if is omitted then the tss and if chart shows a day with 0 IF which is obviously wrong

    i'm not seeing a smooth way to integrate information for efforts that are estimated; maybe i'm missing something or maybe i'll learn more about what matters with more experience

  17. #617
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    Today I shattered pretty much all of my power records for durations over 5 minutes.

    Full post here in the training status thread:
    Training status??

    Yes, I'm psyched!
    Last edited by ridethecliche; 04-27-09 at 11:02 PM.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
    -Albert Camus

    Hammer Nutrition 15% discount!!!

  18. #618
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerhymeswith View Post
    i played around some more with manual entries and I'm not happy with the results; as soon as you put in an intensity factor then a constant average power is calculated and then there is a spike in the power distribution chart; if if is omitted then the tss and if chart shows a day with 0 IF which is obviously wrong

    i'm not seeing a smooth way to integrate information for efforts that are estimated; maybe i'm missing something or maybe i'll learn more about what matters with more experience
    isn't the TSS what really matters?

  19. #619
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikerhymeswith View Post
    i played around some more with manual entries and I'm not happy with the results; as soon as you put in an intensity factor then a constant average power is calculated and then there is a spike in the power distribution chart; if if is omitted then the tss and if chart shows a day with 0 IF which is obviously wrong

    i'm not seeing a smooth way to integrate information for efforts that are estimated; maybe i'm missing something or maybe i'll learn more about what matters with more experience
    Don't estimate any of the power fields, leave them all blank, including the TSS. From the Calendar, right click and select override values, and enter your estimated TSS. Your IF will be blank instead of 0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Don't estimate any of the power fields, leave them all blank, including the TSS. From the Calendar, right click and select override values, and enter your estimated TSS. Your IF will be blank instead of 0.
    ok, i'm doing this now

    next question is on power profile testing, 5 sec, 1 minute, 5 minute....

    is it good to test on slightly inclined road? without the incline I find myself running into bike handling challenges (turns, dips, bumps, gravel) and downhills (lots of rollers here the NC Piedmont)

  21. #621
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    I find hills are good for 1' and 5' tests. Personally, I need to be spinning well over 100rpm to get my best numbers on the 5s, though. Usually I climb at about 80rpm, so it feels weird to find a good combo to test the 5s on an uphill. ymmv
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  22. #622
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SushiJoe View Post
    PowerTap has been flaky the last couple of rides (reading ~40 watts too low across ranges and downloading nonsensical data). I asked around and finally called Saris. Their advice:



    So I did this and my numbers were 0 - 531 - 532. I think this could be the cause. Although I'm not quite sure what this calibration measures. Anyone here know?
    0 - 494 - 493

    what do we do now?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  23. #623
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    0 - 494 - 493

    what do we do now?
    I'm sending mine back. Got an RA #.
    If I don't, I'll likely never have new PBs since the new numbers are so much lower than the old.
    It's under warranty.

  24. #624
    i got nothing. Crash716's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SushiJoe View Post
    I'm sending mine back. Got an RA #.
    If I don't, I'll likely never have new PBs since the new numbers are so much lower than the old.
    It's under warranty.
    so the truth comes out huh?

  25. #625
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash716 View Post
    so the truth comes out huh?
    LOL! Yeah.
    For example. I was going 18+ mph last night at 70-90 watts.
    My SST effort (heart rate and speed were in the right range) was way less than 200 watts (my SST zone is 224-262w).
    At this rate, I'll never have another PB again...

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