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  1. #6226
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    bummer. I could use an extra one

  2. #6227
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I'd just like to read my battery.

  3. #6228
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    hey @andysti & @globecanvas--
    headed out for a MTB ride tonight (5.5 weeks post-op!) and figured i'd share some info. i recorded power and calculated TSS. then i discarded that channel and uploaded the file training peaks to see what hrTSS was computed. it was an "easy" ride, meaning i was out for a cruise and just did the work necessary to get over hills.

    actual TSS = 49.1
    hrTSS = 74.5

    that's a pretty big error in relative terms and this was basically 1h15 of fairly easy riding--but no big deal for performance management if it's an isolated event. if you're doing a 3- or 4-hour MTB ride or lots of shorter rides, you can see how things could go wrong.

    now, i'd ridden on the road for a few hours beforehand, so it is possible HR was elevated (don't think so, but HR is a bit higher vs power during recovery).

    attached 2 files to show how variable power (yellow line) is on the MTB vs a road ride earlier in the day. even outside on variable terrain, it is pretty easy to keep power in a pretty narrow band. i believe that these varied efforts reduce the accuracy of hrTSS. when there are lots of short spikes in terrain the hrTSS calculation can think you're still working when you're coasting.

    Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 10.48.41 PM.png & Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 10.48.47 PM.png.

    more importantly...it was really nice dirt riding tonight.
    10259920_10154155178580577_8174060346240997060_n.jpg

  4. #6229
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    bummer. I could use an extra one
    sit tight for a couple of months. more pc7s will appear on the used market when the 8 rolls out. still not expecting any availability in the USA before august at the earliest.

  5. #6230
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I'd just like to read my battery.
    I read mine all the time

    CR-2032
    +


    a classic.


    I've given up on HR altogether. It was only ever a confirmation that my my TSB/perceived fatigue was right-ish. One less strap to worry about.
    Last edited by Ygduf; 06-07-14 at 09:06 AM.

    twitter.com/ygduf
    strava.com/athletes/ygduf

  6. #6231
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    I'm convinced that once you learn how to use the Flexicharts, there really is nothing that comes close to Cyclinganalytics. Maybe I haven't given GC to WKO much of a shot but the ability to make custom graphs out of pretty much any data point is huge.

    Or maybe I've been too lazy to figure the others out.

  7. #6232
    Senior Member Wesley36's Avatar
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    Did ZCIs on hilly terrain a few days ago - when I was riding, the intervals did not feel that hard, but the next 24 hours of recovery, I was feeling it.

    Quick question - being that the terrain was hilly, I was able to keep my lap avg power where I wanted to, but my power output was not steady or constant at all. Should I try to find a flatter route to do ZCIs on to keep the power more constant, or just don't worry about it?

  8. #6233
    Farmer tan f4rrest's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I'm a PM noob and just got a stages and use it with Strava and Golden Cheetah. I'm having a bit of trouble picking the right value for FTP.
    In Golden Cheetah, the CP curve at 20min has one value (371) but the "best" value is 354. The CP at 1hr is 364 and the best is 322.
    Strava, on the other hand estimates FTP using their power curve at 369.

    Any ideas which value I should actually use as the basis for setting training zones?

  9. #6234
    Senior Member furiousferret's Avatar
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    For me, its best to use .95 of your 20 minute power. Strava has been close for me, but CP value isn't FTP, its a value based on your 3 minute and 20 minute numbers. If one is not along a natural arc then CP will be way off.

  10. #6235
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Do a proper test, especially since this is all new to you.

  11. #6236
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Note that nailing your exact FTP is not important unless you have a 40K TT coming up. Test, get a number, set zones and train to the zones. Once you spend some time with the zones, you'll know whether your FTP estimate came in high or low and can slide the zones a bit to accommodate. After that, you can always just work do the test, then slide the zone numbers according to your last set, then see how things feel.

    The most important thing is a repeatable FTP test, and everyone is different here. My favorite is a trainer-based MAP test, because it's super consistent and sensitive to fitness changes for me -- no real FTP comes out of it, but I can set zones fine. On the other hand, I've lately been doing a 5' and 20' test in the same week, then using MONOD to get a zone-setting number. That's been consistent too, but much more painful than a MAP test.

  12. #6237
    Senior Member Wylde06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    MAP test.
    I know ive seen this somewhere before..but what is a MAP test?

  13. #6238
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    Quote Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
    Hey guys, I'm a PM noob and just got a stages and use it with Strava and Golden Cheetah. I'm having a bit of trouble picking the right value for FTP.
    In Golden Cheetah, the CP curve at 20min has one value (371) but the "best" value is 354. The CP at 1hr is 364 and the best is 322.
    Strava, on the other hand estimates FTP using their power curve at 369.

    Any ideas which value I should actually use as the basis for setting training zones?
    Pretty sure the "best" values you are seeing are numbers that you have actually hit for those times. So - if you actually hit 322 for an hour... and a best 354 for 20 minutes.... I would say taking .95 of your 20 (as has been suggested).... would get you pretty dang close. Maybe 335-340ish.

    I would suggest trying to confirm the 20 minute number by doing a test for that timeframe and see where you land.

  14. #6239
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
    I know ive seen this somewhere before..but what is a MAP test?
    This is where I got my start: Alex's Cycle Blog: MAP Testing - where failure is a success...
    Last edited by waterrockets; 07-11-14 at 09:06 AM.

  15. #6240
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Also, if you drop this text into a new .html file, and open it in your favorite browser, enter your starting power, you will have a timer that tells you your current power target during the test.

    EDIT: damnit, replace ** with a right hand curly brace that BF won't let me type

    Code:
    <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
    
    
    var ms = 0;
    var state = 0;
    var watts = 200;
    var rate = 5;
    var interval = 12; /* 5 watts every 12 seconds */
    var lastRamp = 0;
    
    
    function startstop() {
       if (state == 0) {
          state = 1;
          then = new Date();
          then.setTime(then.getTime() - ms);
          lastRamp = ms;
       ** else {
          state = 0;
          now = new Date();
          ms = now.getTime() - then.getTime();
          document.stpw.time.value = ms / 1000;
       **
    **
    
    
    function swreset() {
       state = 0;
       ms = 0;
       watts = 200;
       lastRamp = 0
       document.stpw.time.value = ms;
       document.stpw.power.value = watts;
    **
    
    
    function display() {
       setTimeout("display();", 50);
       if (state == 1)  {now = new Date();
          ms = now.getTime() - then.getTime();
    
    
          intervalTime = (ms - lastRamp) / 1000;
          if (intervalTime > interval) {
             watts = watts + rate;
             lastRamp = ms;
          **
    
    
          document.stpw.time.value = ms / 1000;
          document.stpw.power.value = watts;
       **
    **
     
    window.onload=display
    </SCRIPT>
    
    
    
    
    <CENTER>
    <FORM NAME="stpw">
    Time:
    <INPUT TYPE="text" Name="time">
    Power:
    <INPUT TYPE="text" Name="power">
    <INPUT TYPE="BUTTON" Name="ssbutton" VALUE="Start/Stop" onClick="startstop()">
    <INPUT TYPE="BUTTON" NAME="reset" VALUE="Reset" onClick="swreset()">
    </FORM>
    </CENTER>

  16. #6241
    Farmer tan f4rrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Do a proper test, especially since this is all new to you.
    I plan to, but I'm usually nursing various Old Guy pains to hit it hard again in the next few days.

  17. #6242
    Farmer tan f4rrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clones2 View Post
    Pretty sure the "best" values you are seeing are numbers that you have actually hit for those times. So - if you actually hit 322 for an hour... and a best 354 for 20 minutes.... I would say taking .95 of your 20 (as has been suggested).... would get you pretty dang close. Maybe 335-340ish.

    I would suggest trying to confirm the 20 minute number by doing a test for that timeframe and see where you land.
    This makes a lot of sense and what I'll do for now.

    To clarify, does the "20 minute" number equal the average power for the entire 20 minute interval (even if, for example, the 3 second power dips low for a minute or two)? Say you're testing and have a "350" number in mind... you're watching the 3-second value jump around a bit... 355... 360... 340..., etc. but in the end the average is we're concerned about, correct?

  18. #6243
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Yes. Average is what you want. Pace accordingly.

    If you can train at tempo, you should be able to test.

  19. #6244
    Senior Member HOWSER's Avatar
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    Though I do not have a power meter now it is next on my list to purchase. I had an opportunity to recently race (1 crit, 1 circut) on a borrowed bike with a powermeter (Quark).

    The stats below are from the 1st race, a crit with many tight corners and pitchy hills.

    Can this data be used to estimate FTP? I assume the best test would be a flat TT?

    Any feedback is appreciated.

    Time: 51:25:00
    Moving Time: 51:21:00
    Elapsed Time: 53:52:00
    Avg Speed: 20.2 mph
    Avg Moving Speed: 20.2 mph
    Max Speed: 29.1 mph
    Elevation Gain: 1,102 ft
    Elevation Loss: 1,125 ft
    Min Elevation: 953 ft
    Max Elevation: 1022 ft
    Avg Power: 335 W
    Max Power: 1,282 W
    Max Avg Power (20 min): 282 W
    Normalized Power (NP): 338 W
    Work: 761 kJ

  20. #6245
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

    Test.

    Borrow that power meter again.

  21. #6246
    Senior Member HOWSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

    Test.

    Borrow that power meter again.

    That's about what I had figured. Thanks for the reply!

  22. #6247
    Senior Member
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    I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?

  23. #6248
    Senior Member HOWSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?
    I don't know. I thought that was odd too.

    The race the next day was very similar with a huge disparity between the two numbers.

  24. #6249
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOWSER View Post
    I don't know. I thought that was odd too.
    If it was really punchy than I wouldn't trust the average power number. For AP/NP to be that close you have to be riding very steady.

  25. #6250
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOWSER View Post
    I don't know. I thought that was odd too.

    The race the next day was very similar with a huge disparity between the two numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?
    didn't account for zeroes in power, only for when he was pedalling

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

    Test.

    Borrow that power meter again.
    i was told differently by a certain cranky master's racer. 340W of NP for an hour, i'd think he should be at least 300-310W for FTP. at least it provides a good starting point for the test

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