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Old 06-05-14, 06:54 PM   #6226
gsteinb
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bummer. I could use an extra one
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Old 06-05-14, 07:04 PM   #6227
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I'd just like to read my battery.
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Old 06-06-14, 11:05 PM   #6228
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hey @andysti & @globecanvas--
headed out for a MTB ride tonight (5.5 weeks post-op!) and figured i'd share some info. i recorded power and calculated TSS. then i discarded that channel and uploaded the file training peaks to see what hrTSS was computed. it was an "easy" ride, meaning i was out for a cruise and just did the work necessary to get over hills.

actual TSS = 49.1
hrTSS = 74.5

that's a pretty big error in relative terms and this was basically 1h15 of fairly easy riding--but no big deal for performance management if it's an isolated event. if you're doing a 3- or 4-hour MTB ride or lots of shorter rides, you can see how things could go wrong.

now, i'd ridden on the road for a few hours beforehand, so it is possible HR was elevated (don't think so, but HR is a bit higher vs power during recovery).

attached 2 files to show how variable power (yellow line) is on the MTB vs a road ride earlier in the day. even outside on variable terrain, it is pretty easy to keep power in a pretty narrow band. i believe that these varied efforts reduce the accuracy of hrTSS. when there are lots of short spikes in terrain the hrTSS calculation can think you're still working when you're coasting.

& .

more importantly...it was really nice dirt riding tonight.
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Old 06-06-14, 11:08 PM   #6229
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bummer. I could use an extra one
sit tight for a couple of months. more pc7s will appear on the used market when the 8 rolls out. still not expecting any availability in the USA before august at the earliest.
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Old 06-07-14, 08:02 AM   #6230
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I'd just like to read my battery.
I read mine all the time

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CR-2032
+


a classic.


I've given up on HR altogether. It was only ever a confirmation that my my TSB/perceived fatigue was right-ish. One less strap to worry about.
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Old 07-07-14, 03:51 PM   #6231
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I'm convinced that once you learn how to use the Flexicharts, there really is nothing that comes close to Cyclinganalytics. Maybe I haven't given GC to WKO much of a shot but the ability to make custom graphs out of pretty much any data point is huge.

Or maybe I've been too lazy to figure the others out.
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Old 07-09-14, 08:03 PM   #6232
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Did ZCIs on hilly terrain a few days ago - when I was riding, the intervals did not feel that hard, but the next 24 hours of recovery, I was feeling it.

Quick question - being that the terrain was hilly, I was able to keep my lap avg power where I wanted to, but my power output was not steady or constant at all. Should I try to find a flatter route to do ZCIs on to keep the power more constant, or just don't worry about it?
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Old 07-11-14, 01:02 AM   #6233
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Hey guys, I'm a PM noob and just got a stages and use it with Strava and Golden Cheetah. I'm having a bit of trouble picking the right value for FTP.
In Golden Cheetah, the CP curve at 20min has one value (371) but the "best" value is 354. The CP at 1hr is 364 and the best is 322.
Strava, on the other hand estimates FTP using their power curve at 369.

Any ideas which value I should actually use as the basis for setting training zones?
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Old 07-11-14, 01:31 AM   #6234
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For me, its best to use .95 of your 20 minute power. Strava has been close for me, but CP value isn't FTP, its a value based on your 3 minute and 20 minute numbers. If one is not along a natural arc then CP will be way off.
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Old 07-11-14, 04:33 AM   #6235
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Do a proper test, especially since this is all new to you.
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Old 07-11-14, 07:39 AM   #6236
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Note that nailing your exact FTP is not important unless you have a 40K TT coming up. Test, get a number, set zones and train to the zones. Once you spend some time with the zones, you'll know whether your FTP estimate came in high or low and can slide the zones a bit to accommodate. After that, you can always just work do the test, then slide the zone numbers according to your last set, then see how things feel.

The most important thing is a repeatable FTP test, and everyone is different here. My favorite is a trainer-based MAP test, because it's super consistent and sensitive to fitness changes for me -- no real FTP comes out of it, but I can set zones fine. On the other hand, I've lately been doing a 5' and 20' test in the same week, then using MONOD to get a zone-setting number. That's been consistent too, but much more painful than a MAP test.
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Old 07-11-14, 07:41 AM   #6237
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
MAP test.
I know ive seen this somewhere before..but what is a MAP test?
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Old 07-11-14, 07:47 AM   #6238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
Hey guys, I'm a PM noob and just got a stages and use it with Strava and Golden Cheetah. I'm having a bit of trouble picking the right value for FTP.
In Golden Cheetah, the CP curve at 20min has one value (371) but the "best" value is 354. The CP at 1hr is 364 and the best is 322.
Strava, on the other hand estimates FTP using their power curve at 369.

Any ideas which value I should actually use as the basis for setting training zones?
Pretty sure the "best" values you are seeing are numbers that you have actually hit for those times. So - if you actually hit 322 for an hour... and a best 354 for 20 minutes.... I would say taking .95 of your 20 (as has been suggested).... would get you pretty dang close. Maybe 335-340ish.

I would suggest trying to confirm the 20 minute number by doing a test for that timeframe and see where you land.
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Old 07-11-14, 08:01 AM   #6239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
I know ive seen this somewhere before..but what is a MAP test?
This is where I got my start: Alex's Cycle Blog: MAP Testing - where failure is a success...

Last edited by waterrockets; 07-11-14 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 07-11-14, 08:06 AM   #6240
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Also, if you drop this text into a new .html file, and open it in your favorite browser, enter your starting power, you will have a timer that tells you your current power target during the test.

EDIT: damnit, replace ** with a right hand curly brace that BF won't let me type

Code:
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">


var ms = 0;
var state = 0;
var watts = 200;
var rate = 5;
var interval = 12; /* 5 watts every 12 seconds */
var lastRamp = 0;


function startstop() {
   if (state == 0) {
      state = 1;
      then = new Date();
      then.setTime(then.getTime() - ms);
      lastRamp = ms;
   ** else {
      state = 0;
      now = new Date();
      ms = now.getTime() - then.getTime();
      document.stpw.time.value = ms / 1000;
   **
**


function swreset() {
   state = 0;
   ms = 0;
   watts = 200;
   lastRamp = 0
   document.stpw.time.value = ms;
   document.stpw.power.value = watts;
**


function display() {
   setTimeout("display();", 50);
   if (state == 1)  {now = new Date();
      ms = now.getTime() - then.getTime();


      intervalTime = (ms - lastRamp) / 1000;
      if (intervalTime > interval) {
         watts = watts + rate;
         lastRamp = ms;
      **


      document.stpw.time.value = ms / 1000;
      document.stpw.power.value = watts;
   **
**
 
window.onload=display
</SCRIPT>




<CENTER>
<FORM NAME="stpw">
Time:
<INPUT TYPE="text" Name="time">
Power:
<INPUT TYPE="text" Name="power">
<INPUT TYPE="BUTTON" Name="ssbutton" VALUE="Start/Stop" onClick="startstop()">
<INPUT TYPE="BUTTON" NAME="reset" VALUE="Reset" onClick="swreset()">
</FORM>
</CENTER>
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Old 07-11-14, 08:35 AM   #6241
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Do a proper test, especially since this is all new to you.
I plan to, but I'm usually nursing various Old Guy pains to hit it hard again in the next few days.
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Old 07-11-14, 08:43 AM   #6242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clones2 View Post
Pretty sure the "best" values you are seeing are numbers that you have actually hit for those times. So - if you actually hit 322 for an hour... and a best 354 for 20 minutes.... I would say taking .95 of your 20 (as has been suggested).... would get you pretty dang close. Maybe 335-340ish.

I would suggest trying to confirm the 20 minute number by doing a test for that timeframe and see where you land.
This makes a lot of sense and what I'll do for now.

To clarify, does the "20 minute" number equal the average power for the entire 20 minute interval (even if, for example, the 3 second power dips low for a minute or two)? Say you're testing and have a "350" number in mind... you're watching the 3-second value jump around a bit... 355... 360... 340..., etc. but in the end the average is we're concerned about, correct?
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Old 07-11-14, 09:07 AM   #6243
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Yes. Average is what you want. Pace accordingly.

If you can train at tempo, you should be able to test.
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Old 07-11-14, 12:44 PM   #6244
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Though I do not have a power meter now it is next on my list to purchase. I had an opportunity to recently race (1 crit, 1 circut) on a borrowed bike with a powermeter (Quark).

The stats below are from the 1st race, a crit with many tight corners and pitchy hills.

Can this data be used to estimate FTP? I assume the best test would be a flat TT?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Time: 51:25:00
Moving Time: 51:21:00
Elapsed Time: 53:52:00
Avg Speed: 20.2 mph
Avg Moving Speed: 20.2 mph
Max Speed: 29.1 mph
Elevation Gain: 1,102 ft
Elevation Loss: 1,125 ft
Min Elevation: 953 ft
Max Elevation: 1022 ft
Avg Power: 335 W
Max Power: 1,282 W
Max Avg Power (20 min): 282 W
Normalized Power (NP): 338 W
Work: 761 kJ
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Old 07-11-14, 01:31 PM   #6245
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I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

Test.

Borrow that power meter again.
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Old 07-11-14, 01:42 PM   #6246
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

Test.

Borrow that power meter again.

That's about what I had figured. Thanks for the reply!
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Old 07-11-14, 01:49 PM   #6247
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I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?
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Old 07-11-14, 01:57 PM   #6248
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I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?
I don't know. I thought that was odd too.

The race the next day was very similar with a huge disparity between the two numbers.
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Old 07-11-14, 02:15 PM   #6249
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I don't know. I thought that was odd too.
If it was really punchy than I wouldn't trust the average power number. For AP/NP to be that close you have to be riding very steady.
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Old 07-11-14, 02:45 PM   #6250
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I don't know. I thought that was odd too.

The race the next day was very similar with a huge disparity between the two numbers.
Quote:
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I would test and shoot for the NP number from the race plus 5%. BTW, how can your average power for 51 minutes be 335w but your max average 20 minute power only be 282w?
didn't account for zeroes in power, only for when he was pedalling

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I would not estimate power from a criterium. AP/NP is all over the map. I would not estimate it at all.

Test.

Borrow that power meter again.
i was told differently by a certain cranky master's racer. 340W of NP for an hour, i'd think he should be at least 300-310W for FTP. at least it provides a good starting point for the test
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