TheKillerPenguin

I'd suggest not worrying about where your CTL sits and focus on increasing your markers even if it requires more rest and thus a drop in training load. 110 strikes me as extreme overkill until your markers are high and you're doing races that require being able to go really hard 3-4hrs in. 110ctl if your ftp is 3w/kg still means you're probably getting dropped (not saying this is your ftp, just an example). 50ctl with a 4.5w/kg ftp makes a lot more sense, especially when your races are mostly around the 2-2.5hr mark. I'm not saying you should focus on letting your ctl drop, but if it happens and your numbers are increasing you're still better off.

As you upgrade and races get longer ctl matters more, but it only matters if you already have your power numbers where they need to be to be competitive.

Doge

On the topic.Power vs heart rate - Which is best for training? Some of the experts' answers may surprise you - BikeRadar

happybday29475

+1 - this is spot-on advice.

You are an incredible outlier, 110 CTL and cat 5. "Extreme overkill" may be an understatement. If you want to overtrain and/or burn out on the sport as quickly as possible, increase your CTL!

If you want to enjoy and see success bike racing, greatly more important are your "markers" as TKP mentions, which I take to mean power and/or power-to-weight and various durations. Like crits? Focus on 5" and 1' power and repeatability. Like HC's? Focus on 20' power-to-weight. Etc.

It may be that your maximal 5" power - key for crits - happens at CTL 50. Like somebody in the track forum wisely said, "if you want to be fast like a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more."

wens

What? I mean I wouldn't call 5" power useless, but it's certainly not the most important maker for crit success.

Heathpack 

Ride with both. It's funny how people frequently try to argue that one is better than the other. I personally get a lot out of both. They tell me different but overlapping things. Sometimes the power data is the primary thing that is relevant, sometimes its the HR data, sometimes it's both.

I agree with almost everything in this article, especially the comment that "watts are not watts".

ShutUpLegs

I agree with TKP. My CTL is currently around 100-110, but I'm a Cat 2 with some longer road races and I've really built it up over the last year. Even I think it's overkill sometimes. It's not always about quantity, but more about quality. My CTL is fairly high now, but come race season I know it will drop below 100 and than I will maintain somewhere around 80-95 CTL depending on time of year. But as TKP has said, focus on areas of weakness and stength (5' power, threshold, sprints) and gauge off of your improvement there instead of how high you can get your CTL. I'm sure there are individuals who are on this forum that run a CTL well below 100, but are 1's and 2's who could keep up with the best of them. Really comes down to what races you do and training for that.

happybday29475

If that was directed at me, I called 5" power "key", but not "most important". I think it's key because IMHO the overwhelming majority of cat 4 (where the poster will shortly be) crits end in sprints.

I actually think the "most important" skill for crit success is to learn to be in the right place at the right time. But as far as key power durations, horses for courses; and unless you're going to ride away from the field, it's probably not FTP.

Edit: I am not saying that FTP is unimportant. Clearly it is. But I do think that, for crits, the max power you can sustain for an hour is less important than some other statistics.

Doge

We started using a power meter and power coach for optimizing position and equipment.
Some folks use the velodrome and that would be nice but hard to do that in Carson without 1st getting certified and then getting permission to take a non track bike on it.

Hermes

Aero testing is possible at Carson without certification and on a TT bike. It is done all the time. Schedule an aero testing session with ERO Jim Manton. I have done the aero testing with Jim and as an alternative to individual testing, one can go as a group and share the track time and costs associated with the program. An alternative to ERO is to schedule and pay for a track time and tell them that you are going to aero test a TT bike and only ride in the pole lane. Not a problem.

You cannot attend an open or racer session and bring a TT bike on the track.

wens

I mean, I think the most important duration for crit sprinting is 1 minute, followed by five. Especially if you don't know which wheels you want to get in, 1 minute gives you the ability to screw up, recover by burning matches, and still do ok because you got to the right place. Getting to the right place is, in my opinion, the biggest part of sprinting. Look at the recent cav/kittel or cav/kristoff sprints, cav was at least as fast in several cases, but sprinting from a worse position and gets dusted.

Cat 3/4/5 if you can get teammates to figure out where you need to be and have the legs to get you there for a sprint, you're doing really well.

petereps

Thanks for all the help guys. I don't really think it's "extreme overkill" for my goals. I really dislike crits, and want to focus on long climbing road races, so I'm okay and aware that I'm sacrificing 5' power for endurance. But even so, my power numbers have been steadily increasing and my endurance seems to be better than most. I'm around a 4.5W/kg FTP right now, and consistently finishing top 10 in road races (in socal, if that matters. Seems like the talent pool is pretty deep here). I'm a 4 and have 15/20 points towards my Cat 3 upgrade, so upgrading should happen soon. I do agree that I'd probably see my 5' power increase if I dropped my load a bit. I'll start to ease off after a few more weeks of build so I can come into the more important races fresh.

Doge

Thank you.

shovelhd

Spot on. This assumes that one has the FTP and race savvy to minimize effort during the race and also has the balls to mix it up with the big boys at the finish. If you are an attack and stick type like me, 10 minute power is key.

happybday29475

So you're the guy that brings a gun to a knife fight. 4.5W/kg is off the charts for a 4, and even for a 3. Like somebody else said, figure out how to use it and you'll be upgrading quickly. I for one am glad you don't like crits.

happybday29475

Yeah. I've tried to figure out in my racing whether 1' or 5' power was more important, the jury's still out.

TheKillerPenguin

Nice.

I still say don't worry too much about CTL. I upgraded to 2 with my ctl hovering around 75 most of the time, and it was race craft, not power, that was my limiter.

edit: Like you've got a huge cushion to play with as far as excess fitness goes. If your CTL dropped 20 points while you smashed the **** out of intervals and increased rest, I don't think you'd be found lacking at the end of a cat 3 race.

shovelhd

This is great advice. If you reduced volume and added intensity you could keep your FTP and gain top end.

petereps

But I assume there's no free lunch. If I reduced volume, would my endurance drop? Or is doing this a no brainer? My main concern is still long hilly road races (70+ miles, 6,000+ ft elevation type races).

Ygduf

endurance is mitochondrial density - it doesn't go away quickly at all. 2min - 5min goes away quick.

shovelhd

What Fudgy said. And I have to ask you, how many 70+ mile Cat4 road races are in your district? We don't have any in the Northeast that I can think of.

revchuck 

There's only one in my area, it's 106 miles for everyone. If the OP lives out west, it's possible.

Wylde06

That sounds awful.

revchuck 

It is. I've done it five times and DNFed three of them, two of those DNFs were at the 90+ mile point.

mike868y

the connecticut stage race used to have a 90 mile road race for cat 4s. it was awesome.

petereps

The cat 4's are usually 50ish miles, and there's usually one every weekend in the state (california). But I just sent in my upgrade for cat 3, which are usually around 70 miles.