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Old 10-04-09, 09:21 PM   #1551
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Yep, some vocabulary confusion there. FTP is ~60 minutes. For shorter durations, proper terminology would be "1-minute mean-maximal power." A few say that as "1' MMP," but most say "1' power." Others also use "1-minute critical power," and state it as "CP1."

So, "1' power," or "CP1" are what you'll usually see around here. Same for "5' power," or "20' power."

For training over the winter, just follow the training status thread for a couple weeks and see what you can learn. Read the Friel book and the Hunter Allen/Andrew Coggan book.
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Old 10-05-09, 12:28 PM   #1552
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Crap.. need to send my powertap back to Saris. Needs to be recalibrated
Seems like the 5 in the test menu should show close to 512, mine shows 331.
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Old 10-05-09, 02:22 PM   #1553
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Yeah, it's looking like mine is ready for an overhaul. Bearings are shot. Lasted three years since the last overhaul, which isn't terrible, I guess.
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Old 10-05-09, 02:23 PM   #1554
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Yep, some vocabulary confusion there. FTP is ~60 minutes. For shorter durations, proper terminology would be "1-minute mean-maximal power." A few say that as "1' MMP," but most say "1' power." Others also use "1-minute critical power," and state it as "CP1."

So, "1' power," or "CP1" are what you'll usually see around here. Same for "5' power," or "20' power."

For training over the winter, just follow the training status thread for a couple weeks and see what you can learn. Read the Friel book and the Hunter Allen/Andrew Coggan book.
Thanks for the info. A lot of what I know right now is purely anecdotal. Looking forward to learning about the science and terminology.
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Old 10-05-09, 03:12 PM   #1555
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Buy Coggan/Allen's book.

Oh, and read it too.
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Old 10-07-09, 10:36 AM   #1556
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I have a question about 5 minute and 10 minute power using Saris PowerAgent.

I have only been training with power since the end of August and still getting used to setting up types of work outs that focus on increasing FTP. Well yesterday I was doing some hill sprints on my way home from work, not repeats but sprinting up a hill and then resting until the next, a minute or two usually.

Well when I uploaded my data I saw that I set a new high for my 5 minute and 10 minute power under my power records. Now since I didnt do an outright 5 minute power test or 10 minute power test are these number sort of meaningless since they were obviously averages sprinting up the hills with my resting?
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Old 10-07-09, 06:28 PM   #1557
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Yes, they're meaningless. You will destroy those numbers in real tests.
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Old 10-07-09, 06:35 PM   #1558
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yea untill you get a lot of data and specificly do certain time frame intervals you will keep setting personal bests.
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Old 10-08-09, 06:57 AM   #1559
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Through the offseason during base building, do you guys try to maintain CTL, or raise or lower it?

For the past week or so I've been spending 90-120 minutes on the trainer at about 75% FTP per night and my CTL is slowly dropping.

So is it best to try to maintain a constant CTL throughout the winter?
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Old 10-08-09, 07:17 AM   #1560
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My CTL rarely gets over 60. I'm just trying to keep it from falling below 40 all the time.
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Old 10-08-09, 07:45 AM   #1561
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Dang... I'm still pushing around 65 CTL. Maybe I should't be so concerned that it's dropping a little...
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Old 10-08-09, 07:51 AM   #1562
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The numbers not really important unless your building for a peak, and even then it's relative from person to person.

More CTL does not necessarily mean faster/better, the makeup is important. Just like that ugly girlfriend from back in high school.
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Old 10-08-09, 07:56 AM   #1563
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Yeah, like Bleh from Drawn Together
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Old 10-11-09, 11:08 PM   #1564
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huge thumbs up to training peaks. my computer got all screwed up so i reformatted it. i saved all my files and emailed them letting them know what happened. in 27 minutes i had a new key code and full instructions on what to do. great company and i didnt have to lose anything.
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Old 10-11-09, 11:25 PM   #1565
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i was moving all the columns around and messed up the layout. i set it up back as close as i had it by memory (the default way) but can someone post a screenshot of the graph tab? I cant seem to get the layout how it originally came. thanks
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Old 10-16-09, 10:50 AM   #1566
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Sent my PT with wheel last Saturday to Saris and yesterday a box from Fedex with my newly calibrated PT was at the door. That is some QUICK turnaround.

And yeah.. finally I can see power again, not the depressing 0W i've seen before, now it's 250W depressing.
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Old 10-16-09, 10:24 PM   #1567
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Hmm. I sent mine last Friday, but I've been too busy to do any tracking.

EDIT: it's still just showing "accepted" from when I sent it (meaning "I dropped it off at USPS"). Sweet. I insured it for $1k
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Old 10-17-09, 12:51 PM   #1568
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Not sure if this is starting to happen or I just never noticed but a lot of the data is slightly different then what the head unit displays. For the ride I just did today the headunit is 5kJ higher, shows 3 seconds less, and 20' power says 2 watts less. Also the cadences shown in the parenthesis in the graph tab are different then the average shown below for the time frame data. Everything else seems to be exact. I just don't remember having any variances until now. I know they are very small differences but am just wondering if this is normal or if something is going out of whack.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:09 PM   #1569
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I think it comes down to how the data times out with not pedaling etc.

Nothing to worry about. I just go by the program.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:33 PM   #1570
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Yeah, the display might have a different interpretation of the samples in memory than your PC software. As long as you're not seeing like a steady % difference or something, don't sweat it. Just make sure you do your 1-minute tests for 1:03, just in case.
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Old 10-17-09, 01:56 PM   #1571
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Not sure if this is starting to happen or I just never noticed but a lot of the data is slightly different then what the head unit displays. For the ride I just did today the headunit is 5kJ higher, shows 3 seconds less, and 20' power says 2 watts less. Also the cadences shown in the parenthesis in the graph tab are different then the average shown below for the time frame data. Everything else seems to be exact. I just don't remember having any variances until now. I know they are very small differences but am just wondering if this is normal or if something is going out of whack.
This is with the PT unit?

My 705 seems to always display wildly different power #'s than WKO - avg power is always too high to WKO's AP, usually closer to NP (does it not count zeroes by default?)

Fwiw I have the firmware from earlier this summer, haven't upgraded to the new stuff yet. I just take all the #'s with a grain or two of salt.
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Old 10-17-09, 02:52 PM   #1572
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WKO counts zero's, chances are your PT is set to ignore them.
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Old 10-18-09, 03:24 PM   #1573
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So I've got a season's worth of data and I'm finally getting the chance to reflect on my "progress."

Before hunkering down into base, of course it stands to reason that I should have a solid understanding of where my zones are. But it hasn't been all that easy...

Having a little difficulty reconciling my "true" FTP from a series of data points, specifically from races, hard group rides, a professionally administered fitness test (from last spring) and general RPE from workouts.

In the Allen and Coogan book, a very reasonable substitute for an FTP test is normalized power from a hard, one hour effort from a race. This was set early in May and have yet to see number like it again. Initially, I tried to base zones off this number and it didn't take long to realize that the efforts were way too hard and unsustainable.

After a series of other races, hard group rides and FTP heart rate efforts, I settled on a number that, I thought, held up really well for the rest of the season.

Over the past couple of months, I started seeing IF numbers approach and exceed 1.0 and with the general sense that I was getting more fit, I had my suspicions that my FTP had been improving.

Now, you might ask why I don't just conduct an FTP test... I've tried... and had wildly different results. Is it possible that tests themselves are a limiter for me? In the same way that I may not be a sprinter or a climber? IOW, I question the idea that large blocks of training should rest on the performance from ONE effort, when you have a series recent hard efforts to draw from.

So I guess I have a broad philosophical question about training with power that I've struggled with since getting my PT and never really got a satisfactory answer... and secondly, would like to know if anyone else "triangulates" on their FTP level and achieved any sort of success from it.
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Old 10-18-09, 03:35 PM   #1574
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My 705 seems to always display wildly different power #'s than WKO - avg power is always too high to WKO's AP, usually closer to NP (does it not count zeroes by default?)

Fwiw I have the firmware from earlier this summer, haven't upgraded to the new stuff yet. I just take all the #'s with a grain or two of salt.
The older firmware ignores 0's, so it will have higher averages. The newer firmware has an option, but it defaults to ignore zeros. You really should upgrade to the latest, they pretty much worked out all the issues.
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Old 10-18-09, 03:50 PM   #1575
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So I've got a season's worth of data and I'm finally getting the chance to reflect on my "progress."

Before hunkering down into base, of course it stands to reason that I should have a solid understanding of where my zones are. But it hasn't been all that easy...

Having a little difficulty reconciling my "true" FTP from a series of data points, specifically from races, hard group rides, a professionally administered fitness test (from last spring) and general RPE from workouts.

In the Allen and Coogan book, a very reasonable substitute for an FTP test is normalized power from a hard, one hour effort from a race. This was set early in May and have yet to see number like it again. Initially, I tried to base zones off this number and it didn't take long to realize that the efforts were way too hard and unsustainable.

After a series of other races, hard group rides and FTP heart rate efforts, I settled on a number that, I thought, held up really well for the rest of the season.

Over the past couple of months, I started seeing IF numbers approach and exceed 1.0 and with the general sense that I was getting more fit, I had my suspicions that my FTP had been improving.

Now, you might ask why I don't just conduct an FTP test... I've tried... and had wildly different results. Is it possible that tests themselves are a limiter for me? In the same way that I may not be a sprinter or a climber? IOW, I question the idea that large blocks of training should rest on the performance from ONE effort, when you have a series recent hard efforts to draw from.

So I guess I have a broad philosophical question about training with power that I've struggled with since getting my PT and never really got a satisfactory answer... and secondly, would like to know if anyone else "triangulates" on their FTP level and achieved any sort of success from it.
This season, I've been able to estimate my FTP from my steady SST pace. Knowing that I can expect to hold ~90% FTP for ~40 minutes straight, five days in a row, I can see how it goes and get an estimate from that. If I'm able to consistently come out of SST rides with an NP of 315W, then I know I'm doing well, with my FTP at 350W or so (never been higher than 360W).

Have you tried a MAP test yet? Get a helper to scream at you though.
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