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  1. #1601
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loreley View Post
    Sorry if this newbie question has been asked before..

    I just got a Wired Powertap Comp and I'm trying to figure something out.

    I can't really figure out what "Rate of Display" setting does for watts, speed, cadence and heart rate does...

    For example, does this mean if it's 30 seconds, your current speed will only change on the display every 30 seconds?

    Thanks in advance
    correct. you can adjust how often the screen updates. If it is on 1 second it is very jumpy and will show every data point on the screen (if you have it in 1 sec recording). 2 seconds will average 2 seconds of data and display that. 3 seconds will average 3 seconds and display that, etc... I have all of mine set to 2 seconds but I think most people use 3 seconds. It is really preference.

  2. #1602
    Village Idiot
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    If it's jumpy you can't really use the tool as you're supposed to, so a 3 second smoothing is a good thing to have.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
    -Albert Camus

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  3. #1603
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    Ok didn't really get any responses over at the training thread, so I'll repost here:

    Late last summer I finally put together an excel log for myself that has all the features (well, not all but I'm pretty sure almost all) of WKO's Performance Manager. So I have data for a couple months in it - the very end of last season, time off, and the start of base.

    Anyway, since I can finally track this stuff, my question is what kind of TSS are you guys hitting weekly? Post what cat you are for reference if you don't mind. Are you incrementally increasing TSS on a weekly basis, and if so by how much?
    Velo Magazine/VeloNews.com tech guy — get in touch or hit me on the tweeter @CaleyFretz

  4. #1604
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Get the CTL-planner from Wattage forum (just look under files, it's in there).

    Then set up your TSS plan so that you gain about 5 CTL/week. That's the max that people recommend, but you might be able to go higher, I dunno.

    I'm Cat 4, and this week is 700 TSS, not that it matters. It just depends on your CTL how much TSS you can handle.

  5. #1605
    Writin' stuff ZeCanon's Avatar
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    Yeah I have the planner, I've incorporated it into my handy dandy spreadsheet.

    This is more just curiosity. I'm pretty well aware of what I can handle, TSS numbers or not. I'm more interested in the various methods people are using to increase CTL (there are lots...), particularly this time of year.
    Velo Magazine/VeloNews.com tech guy — get in touch or hit me on the tweeter @CaleyFretz

  6. #1606
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    I plan a 4-5 point CTL increase per week. If I put workouts on paper and the CTL increase is less than I want, I lengthen endurance time. Intervals are set irrespective of CTL.

    I can sustain a 3-4 point increase indefinitely while a 5+ point per week eventually I have to let off to a 1-2 point increase. I don't normally do "rest weeks" where CTL drops until racing. This year I am taking time off over the Christmas weekend, but I'm also doing a training camp the week prior with a 25 hr week.

    At ~100 CTL, to get a 5 point increase, I'm doing ~900-1000 CTL / week. When I'm pushing 120 CTL, I'm doing 1000-1150/week.

    This year, my "point of no going over" is the 130 CTL mark. I will slow the CTL increase from 115 to 130 to about 1 pt per week after Christmas.

    I plan to race starting in February through May this year, otherwise I'd be shifting this thing a little further down the calendar.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  7. #1607
    Glimmers of form esammuli's Avatar
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    Last week was 700 TSS. My biggest week during base will probably be about 900-950 TSS and I'll peak with CTL at ~110 TSS/day in March. I'm doing mostly long ZII rides with one or two days of threshold or tempo work per week. Peak week will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 21 hours. I'm a Cat 2 in SoCal.

  8. #1608
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    Has anyone here bought any of the Coggin trainingplans on Training peaks? I was interested in the power increase series for my build periods and then the summer plans for race season. I always get lost in summer as to peaking, intervals, etc. and I thought that this might help.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

  9. #1609
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bifnasty View Post
    Has anyone here bought any of the Coggin trainingplans on Training peaks? I was interested in the power increase series for my build periods and then the summer plans for race season. I always get lost in summer as to peaking, intervals, etc. and I thought that this might help.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.
    Dr Coggan isn't a coach, so I'm pretty sure you won't find any training plans made by him.

  10. #1610
    Born too slow.
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    Slip, meant the other guy on the book cover, Allen.

  11. #1611
    Senior Member vladav's Avatar
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    Those of you with the 705+PT setup:

    How do you 'know' when your hub batteries are getting low? With the crappy Cervo, the reception was so sensitive to signal strength(battery life), my indicator was a few back2back rides with signal drops. Whenever that happened I'd change the battery.

    So what indicator do you use?

  12. #1612
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
    Anyway, since I can finally track this stuff, my question is what kind of TSS are you guys hitting weekly? Post what cat you are for reference if you don't mind. Are you incrementally increasing TSS on a weekly basis, and if so by how much?
    500-600 TSS/week as of late (7+ hours), During last season it was more like 8-14 hours per week.

    When Base comes (soon) I'll be shooting for more like 10-15 hours, so probably 700-800+ TSS.

    (Cat 5 with two to go, CTL is ~68 currently fwiw)
    cat 1.

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  13. #1613
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    I have a question about wattage jumps. During my intervals I have no problem getting right on, or within a couple of watts to my target wattage for the interval, but the watts can sway as much as 30 watts during the interval, for example 15w over and 15 watts under my target average wattage. Example: target average for the interval is 270w, but during the interval my watts will vary between 285w and 255w. I'm running a PT with 2 second averaging. Are there any workouts I can do to try to help eliminate wattage spikes and dips during intervals or is this normal?

  14. #1614
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    what do you guys use to see if you should raise/lower your FTP? Do you look at IF or normalized power? I wouldn't think so since they both are calculated over the entire workout so a ride shorter than an hour will have an IF or norm power over your FTP and a ride longer will have a lower IF and norm power. I have been looking at mean maximal power at 20 minutes and 1 hour for each ride to get a rough idea of how my FTP is changing. Does this seem like the best method?

  15. #1615
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian416 View Post
    I have a question about wattage jumps. During my intervals I have no problem getting right on, or within a couple of watts to my target wattage for the interval, but the watts can sway as much as 30 watts during the interval, for example 15w over and 15 watts under my target average wattage. Example: target average for the interval is 270w, but during the interval my watts will vary between 285w and 255w. I'm running a PT with 2 second averaging. Are there any workouts I can do to try to help eliminate wattage spikes and dips during intervals or is this normal?
    I'd set it for 10s averaging, then do Friel's pace intervals once/week for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
    what do you guys use to see if you should raise/lower your FTP? Do you look at IF or normalized power? I wouldn't think so since they both are calculated over the entire workout so a ride shorter than an hour will have an IF or norm power over your FTP and a ride longer will have a lower IF and norm power. I have been looking at mean maximal power at 20 minutes and 1 hour for each ride to get a rough idea of how my FTP is changing. Does this seem like the best method?
    You should be able to feel that your zones are too easy or too hard. For instance, if you're not feeling the RPE/pain level properly at 90% in an SST ride, then you should look at what you can hold, and make your FTP 0.9 times that number.

  16. #1616
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian416 View Post
    I have a question about wattage jumps. During my intervals I have no problem getting right on, or within a couple of watts to my target wattage for the interval, but the watts can sway as much as 30 watts during the interval, for example 15w over and 15 watts under my target average wattage. Example: target average for the interval is 270w, but during the interval my watts will vary between 285w and 255w. I'm running a PT with 2 second averaging. Are there any workouts I can do to try to help eliminate wattage spikes and dips during intervals or is this normal?
    Yeah, it's annoying, but just try to keep it as close to target as possible. The 705 I'm using has only these options: no averaging, 3 second averaging, and 30 second averaging. Pretty much useless unless you're trying to do a longer interval, and the way our terrain rolls, and the wind we've been having, it's always amusing to nail a particular target.

    BTW -- I suspect the stochastic nature of on the road intervals makes a big part of the difference in effort compared to doing them on a trainer. Those little "micro-rests" help quite a bit..
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  17. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian416 View Post
    Example: target average for the interval is 270w, but during the interval my watts will vary between 285w and 255w. I'm running a PT with 2 second averaging. Are there any workouts I can do to try to help eliminate wattage spikes and dips during intervals or is this normal?
    That sounds like the characteristic 'precession effect' of the PowerTap. The PowerTap averages power over a short window (approx 1.2 Seconds). Unless you are pedalling at a cadence that has an integral number (1,2,3 etc) of strokes in that averaging window, the reading you get will vary depending on which portions of the pedal stroke are averaged. It's best just to increase the averaging time as previously mentioned.

  18. #1618
    Roadie brian416's Avatar
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    Alright, good to know its somewhat normal.

  19. #1619
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    for the first time so far i had a power spike of 1700+ watts in the middle of a recovery effort. how can i delete it out of wko+? i tried highlighting it and hitting delete range but it didnt do anything.

    **EDIT** I saw you can click the "123" button to manually edit data. The help function is actually really good on wko+
    Last edited by Jynx; 12-16-09 at 04:44 PM.

  20. #1620
    Senior Member bdbike16's Avatar
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    Cat 5s putting in 700+ TSS/Wk are definitely not spending their time efficiently. It's not overly difficult to put in 450-550 TSS/Wk and race cat 3, as long as you're spending your time in the saddle doing the right stuff.
    "Do not consider painful what is good for you." -Euripides

  21. #1621
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbike16 View Post
    Cat 5s putting in 700+ TSS/Wk are definitely not spending their time efficiently. It's not overly difficult to put in 450-550 TSS/Wk and race cat 3, as long as you're spending your time in the saddle doing the right stuff.
    huh? As far as I know, there's no such thing as "too much TSS" as long as you're maintaining it week to week without burnout. Care to explain?

    I'm interesting because I'm a Cat 4 at 700 this week and climbing 5 CTL per week during base.

  22. #1622
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Jynx - control x will cut it out.
    you can also manually edit it by selecting one of the menus at the top, it gives you a spreadsheet of the entire ride and each entry, but you have to find it.

  23. #1623
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbike16 View Post
    Cat 5s putting in 700+ TSS/Wk are definitely not spending their time efficiently. It's not overly difficult to put in 450-550 TSS/Wk and race cat 3, as long as you're spending your time in the saddle doing the right stuff.
    care to expand on this? 100 TSS is just 1 hour at FTP. If a cat 5 is doing 700 TSS a week they are probably riding 8 hours or so a week. That doesn't seem too unreasonable. You seem to just be saying that 8 hours a week is too much and "not efficient" and that you are better off doing about 6 hours a week.

  24. #1624
    ..... Jynx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnybutts View Post
    Jynx - control x will cut it out.
    you can also manually edit it by selecting one of the menus at the top, it gives you a spreadsheet of the entire ride and each entry, but you have to find it.

    yea i saw you could "cut" it but i assumed that was only to be used if you planned to paste it again but the help menu said that is how you delete items. I ended up editing the couple of data points that were wrong. it was really just a spike for 2 data points. Thanks.

  25. #1625
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
    care to expand on this? 100 TSS is just 1 hour at FTP. If a cat 5 is doing 700 TSS a week they are probably riding 8 hours or so a week. That doesn't seem too unreasonable. You seem to just be saying that 8 hours a week is too much and "not efficient" and that you are better off doing about 6 hours a week.
    Personally, I'm nowhere near 700 TSS after 8 hours. 700 TSS for me these days (mix of endurance and tempo) is usually around 13 or 14 hours.

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