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  1. #176
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Who is MJH2?
    MJH2 from on here. Screen name. He's a teammate of mine...



    He's on the left.

  2. #177
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Well....I was going to actually do a "power test" today, but the thought of a 20 minute all out interval on a trainer in my basement was a bit, shall we say, not thrilling.

    So, MJH2 sent over a link to an indoor TT that Vision Quest (Robbie Ventura's coaching company) was putting on today in their new facility.

    First off let me say OMFG! The facility was awesome. I walked in ealy as an early group was finishing. Who's there but Ventura. Cool.

    I go into the locker room - yes...locker room - and there right by the door is an autographed posted of Hampsten climbing the Gavia in the snow. Dig into the place and there is just tons of signed Lance yellow jerseys, old team Postal/Disco bikes (Hincapie, Ventura, Armstrong), as well as some Landis podium presentation yellow jerseys signed. .....in a corner....out of the way....

    Anyway. It's a 1/2 hour USAC/computrainer based TT. Full competition. Long story but my Garmin wasn't charged so I had to use an ear clip pulse/ox to get HR data. It was off the charts. Caffiene I believe combined with dehydration from the Bike Forums party 2 nights before.

    I hit it on the TT, I don't do great. I started well, but was over my LTHR (170) instantly and stayed in the 185-187 bpm range the whole time. I still don't know how I did because technically they are still doing it (1 group/hr).

    But I did get a plot of data from them. They list these as "Personalized Training Zones Based on Indoor TT performance"

    Weight: 79.5kg (f'n lying POS scale...)
    HR at lactate threshold: 186 (no way in hell)
    Lactate Threshold Power (LTP): 259 Watts (was this just Average power for the 1/2 hr TT? If so my powertap says 266 Watts)
    Lactate Threshold Power to Weight: 3.3 w/kg


    It then goes on to list my "zones" for power and HR.

    So....they didn't list any of the file info for me. No max, avg, etc. Just what they have here. I don't know if they put calculated out based on a 1/2 hr to compensate for it being an hour. I don't know if their Threshold Power is FTP...etc.

    What do you guys think? I have my own power file to use if needed.

    FWIW, MJH2 weighs a bit more and had higher power numbers, but we were both 3.3 W/Kg. Makes sense because we seem to always be riding right with each other whether racing or just riding. We were both surprised at the 3.3. We both thought we would be lower.

    Should I calculate stuff based on my numbers? If so how do I do that? It was an all out 1/2hr TT. I don't want to say I did it totally all out, but I would have been hard pressed to have done better.
    It’s common to use average power from a 30min test for FTP and the average HR for the last 20min as LTHR.

    How much did you pay for this test? If they didn’t do gas or blood sampling you should have just done this at home.

  3. #178
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    It’s common to use average power from a 30min test for FTP and the average HR for the last 20min as LTHR.

    How much did you pay for this test? If they didn’t do gas or blood sampling you should have just done this at home.
    It wasn't a test. It was a USAC sanctioned indoor TT race. Officials, etc. The whole deal.

    It just so happened it occured at a coaching facility on Computrainers/racers and they were able to give us that print out at the end of the race.

    It was a race.

    I posted a little more about it, with pictures, here

    Edit....it was a $25 entry.

  4. #179
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    It wasn't a test. It was a USAC sanctioned indoor TT race. Officials, etc. The whole deal.

    It just so happened it occured at a coaching facility on Computrainers/racers and they were able to give us that print out at the end of the race.

    It was a race.

    I posted a little more about it, with pictures, here

    Edit....it was a $25 entry.
    That makes more sense. I wouldn’t pay squat for plain TT testing, but I would pay $25 to do a goofy event… go figure.

  5. #180
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    That makes more sense. I wouldn’t pay squat for plain TT testing, but I would pay $25 to do a goofy event… go figure.
    Yeah, I was kind of like....FTP test in my basement....or actual "race" where I know I will ride harder and probably get better results....and see other people....and compete.....

    It was a tough choice...

  6. #181
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    i just broke off the head of my speed sensor in my spokes. blurgh.


    also, when I tried to download the data from my 4+ hr ride, it froze multiple times before I cleared the memory. Guess I'll never know what my average wattage was over that 3.5 minutes where I was KILLING it.

    ho hum
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    i just broke off the head of my speed sensor in my spokes. blurgh.


    also, when I tried to download the data from my 4+ hr ride, it froze multiple times before I cleared the memory. Guess I'll never know what my average wattage was over that 3.5 minutes where I was KILLING it.

    ho hum
    I got a dog fang so I wouldn't kill my power sensor with my chain.

    PS, what happened? I thought you would have checked for clearance and such!
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  8. #183
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    there are 2 sensors, as you know. the one I broke was on the wheel for speed, not the reed switch by the bottom bracket. The plastic sensor that clipped to the plastic holder popped off. This happened on a 40+ mph descent where I was racing another dude (there's a town line at the bottom, and it's all about positioning and tactics). I think I hit a pothole pretty hard and somehow the sensor popped off the plastic clip on my fork. That's all she wrote for that guy.


    ps -- i lost the sprint
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    there are 2 sensors, as you know. the one I broke was on the wheel for speed, not the reed switch by the bottom bracket. The plastic sensor that clipped to the plastic holder popped off. This happened on a 40+ mph descent where I was racing another dude (there's a town line at the bottom, and it's all about positioning and tactics). I think I hit a pothole pretty hard and somehow the sensor popped off the plastic clip on my fork. That's all she wrote for that guy.


    ps -- i lost the sprint
    Ah bummer. My SRM has a rear wheel sensor. I ziptied it on. The zipties aren't super tight, but it has some adhesive on it too and doesn't seem to be budging.
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  10. #185
    Senior Member TideCrazy3193's Avatar
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    I was doing my SST wattage today around 235 and it felt really good. So I think that my FTP estimate of 260 is fairly spot on. That puts me right at 4.0 w/kg.

  11. #186
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    Bumping this thread as people start having more questions this time of year.
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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  12. #187
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    How are most of you guys doing the stress tests to figure out your 5sec, 1min, 5min, FTP etc.? Outdoors or trainer?

  13. #188
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    5 min + rollers. I'll be doing outdoors for anything less.
    EOL Ra Ra F
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    10 lbs and 6% to go!

  14. #189
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Outdoors. On a hill for the 1m. Flat ground for the 5s. Possibly a hill with the 5m.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Outdoors. On a hill for the 1m. Flat ground for the 5s. Possibly a hill with the 5m.
    Really?

    For the 5 sec sprint, I ride down a hill and try to hit around 30 mph before the hill ends and the next little rise starts. I *** it the second the next rise starts.

    I figure it stimulates sprinting speeds better since you're probably going to start a sprint at around 30mph in most (crit) situations.
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  16. #191
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    Really?

    For the 5 sec sprint, I ride down a hill and try to hit around 30 mph before the hill ends and the next little rise starts. I *** it the second the next rise starts.

    I figure it stimulates sprinting speeds better since you're probably going to start a sprint at around 30mph in most (crit) situations.
    I've done most of mine coming out of a corner, cause I figure that's close to how a crit would be, and also it's easy to do them in my neighborhood... Unfortunately at sprint efforts it only takes about 15 seconds to run out of road and then I have to brake and set up for the next corner... so I never get to see how it trails off.

  17. #192
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Well, I'm testing, not training.

    My legs respond better to the acceleration I get starting from ~20mph on flat ground. As the legs lose power in the sprint, the cadence is going up, making it easier to get that last bit out.

  18. #193
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    So, since I have one of my first nice hard/long rides of the season in now, I'm wondering what the NP hypothesis here would mean.

    Entire workout (163 watts):
    Duration: 2:54:11 (3:07:43)
    Work: 1706 kJ
    TSS: 200 (intensity factor 0.83)
    Norm Power: 207
    Distance: 44.655 mi

    Min Max Avg
    Power: 0 1230 163 watts
    Heart Rate: 0 251 1 bpm
    Cadence: 29 166 77 rpm
    Speed: 0 36.3 15.4 mph

    Does the NP mean that if I decided to go for 3 hours straight, I could hypothetically hold 200 watts for that entire duration with the same 'cost'?

    Also, can someone explain CTL/ATL/TSB?
    I'm really confused and mine are all over the place right now.
    ATL: 57.6
    TSB:-8.2
    CTL: 29.9
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  19. #194
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    oops, i posted my PT questions over here.

    btw i thought the world of computers was second in terms of acronyms (behind the military), but i think power-training lingo might take the cake!

    i've got lots to learn, this much i know.
    cat 1.

    blog

  20. #195
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    Does the NP mean that if I decided to go for 3 hours straight, I could hypothetically hold 200 watts for that entire duration with the same 'cost'?
    Basically it equates the metabolic "cost" of a variable effort to that of a steady effort. When you go over threshold, you are stressing your metabolism much faster than otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    Also, can someone explain CTL/ATL/TSB?
    I'm really confused and mine are all over the place right now.
    ATL: 57.6
    TSB:-8.2
    CTL: 29.9
    CTL is your weighted average of your TSS/day over a long period, the default being 42 days. This is the "chronic training load" and is often referred to as "fitness". ATL is the "acute training load" over a shorter period of time, the default being 7 days. It is essentially your "fatigue". The TSB is the "training stress balance", and is the difference between your CTL and your ATL. When you are "building" your ATL will be higher than your CTL and your TSB will be negative, as you are adding more training stress in the short term than you have in the long term. When you reduce the intensity and/or volume of your workouts your ATL drops, and when it is less than your CTL your TSB is positive. The idea is that your peaks are around when your TSB is 0 because you are rested, but if you drop off too much ATL you will start to lose CTL as well.

    Edit: are you sure those numbers are correct? TSB=CTL-ATL and yours don't add up.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Basically it equates the metabolic "cost" of a variable effort to that of a steady effort. When you go over threshold, you are stressing your metabolism much faster than otherwise.



    CTL is your weighted average of your TSS/day over a long period, the default being 42 days. This is the "chronic training load" and is often referred to as "fitness". ATL is the "acute training load" over a shorter period of time, the default being 7 days. It is essentially your "fatigue". The TSB is the "training stress balance", and is the difference between your CTL and your ATL. When you are "building" your ATL will be higher than your CTL and your TSB will be negative, as you are adding more training stress in the short term than you have in the long term. When you reduce the intensity and/or volume of your workouts your ATL drops, and when it is less than your CTL your TSB is positive. The idea is that your peaks are around when your TSB is 0 because you are rested, but if you drop off too much ATL you will start to lose CTL as well.

    Edit: are you sure those numbers are correct? TSB=CTL-ATL and yours don't add up.
    CTL is 29.8 typo.
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  22. #197
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    CTL is 29.8 typo.
    Your TSB should be 29.8 - 57.6 = 27.8

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    CTL is your weighted average of your TSS/day over a long period, the default being 42 days.
    CTL is the exponentially weighted average of all your training data. 42 is the default time constant for the exponential weighting. http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articl...e-manager.aspx

    Also today's TSB is calculated from yesterday's CTL and ATL.

  24. #199
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    CTL is the exponentially weighted average of all your training data. 42 is the default time constant for the exponential weighting. http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articl...e-manager.aspx
    That's what I meant...

    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    Also today's TSB is calculated from yesterday's CTL and ATL.
    That I did not realize.

  25. #200
    Senior Member garysol1's Avatar
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    This thread is now a sticky. It will live at the top of the Road Racing Sub Forum

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