Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here!
04-30-09, 05:16 PM
#626
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I've spent April doing 20x2's twice weekly with great success, an occasional 20x3. For May I was going to do one 20x2 and one 5x4 session weekly. I was wondering if maybe I should do 10x3 instead of the 5x4 as an intermediate step. Seems like going from 20 min down to 5 min is a big jump. Does a 10 min INT pretty much work the same systems as a 20 min?
04-30-09, 05:41 PM
#627
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I don't see much point to a 10 minute interval... do 20s for FTP and 5s for VO2Max. At appropriate intensities of course. Well except for that pacing workout, but that seems to work you a little differently...
05-01-09, 07:28 AM
#628
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Interesting comment by Andy Coggan over at the Wattage group. A guy thought his FTP estimate might be low due to his high NP's on some hard group rides.
If this is the case then I should be bumping up my FTP. What do you guys think?
"I'd trust normalized power from an outdoor ride before I'd trust the results of formal testing conducted on a trainer."
05-01-09, 07:58 AM
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While I haven't done any formal testing either way, I had been basing my SST workouts on the Kurt Kinetic power curve all winter. Although, those numbers seem way off after getting on the trainer w/ the Ptap. I guess I need to get outdoors and do some testing or hit the local TT series for a more accurate assessment.
05-01-09, 08:15 AM
#631
slow up hills
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^^ comparing numbers from different systems is tricky. even with perfect accuracy SRM and powertap will give different answers due to drivetrain losses. To assume the trainer = the powermeter is probably not accurate
05-01-09, 08:24 AM
#632
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I've read elsewhere that the lack of cooling on indoor trainers/rollers can significantly lower FTP. Basically, more blood is being diverted to cool you instead of produce power. This is also why when Floyd made his breakaway on one of the mountain stages he was basically pouring cold water over himself the entire time. I think he used like 30 or 40 bottles and it was in the 90's during that day.
Makes sense to me, as my power numbers are about 10% lower on the rollers, even with a big window fan.
Makes sense to me, as my power numbers are about 10% lower on the rollers, even with a big window fan.
05-01-09, 08:26 AM
#633
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My numbers inside are also lower.
Which is heartening in a way because that means my FTP is higher (in theory) than 270 watts.
Which is heartening in a way because that means my FTP is higher (in theory) than 270 watts.
05-01-09, 08:36 AM
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I've read elsewhere that the lack of cooling on indoor trainers/rollers can significantly lower FTP. Basically, more blood is being diverted to cool you instead of produce power. This is also why when Floyd made his breakaway on one of the mountain stages he was basically pouring cold water over himself the entire time. I think he used like 30 or 40 bottles and it was in the 90's during that day.
Makes sense to me, as my power numbers are about 10% lower on the rollers, even with a big window fan.
Makes sense to me, as my power numbers are about 10% lower on the rollers, even with a big window fan.
05-01-09, 08:44 AM
#635
slow up hills
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^^ which makes sense, since you act as a large momentum storage device on the road. However, I can maintain a higher wattage on uphills, which should behave like a slightly smaller flywheel. I guess there is a happy medium somewhere
05-01-09, 08:49 AM
#636
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For me power on hills vs. flats is a motivational and feedback issue. You let up for a moment on a climb and you slow down immediately. Let up on the flats and it is not immediately obvious if you are not watching your power. In other words, it's too easy too wuss out.
05-01-09, 08:58 AM
#639
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Says the man from Santa Barbara, CA. 
Riding in sub-freezing temps = not fun.
Riding in sub-freezing temps = not fun.
05-01-09, 09:11 AM
#641
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I'm just going to try a 20 min test outside one of these days. If the rainy, 48-degree weather ever goes away, that is...
05-01-09, 09:37 AM
#642
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Code:
Entire workout (155 watts): Duration: 1:55:19 (2:03:53) Work: 1058 kJ TSS: 168.2 (intensity factor 0.942) Norm Power: 207 VI: 1.34 Distance: 32.953 mi Min Max Avg Power: 0 754 155 watts Cadence: 29 222 86 rpm Speed: 0 39.6 17.2 mph Pace 1:31 0:00 3:29 min/mi Hub Torque: 0 377 71 lb-in Crank Torque: 0 859 159 lb-in Peak 60min (181 watts): Duration: 1:00:16 Work: 650 kJ TSS: 111.7 (intensity factor 1.057) Norm Power: 233 VI: 1.29 Distance: 18.563 mi Min Max Avg Power: 0 754 181 watts Cadence: 29 222 89 rpm Speed: 0 39.6 18.5 mph Pace 1:31 0:00 3:15 min/mi Hub Torque: 0 377 80 lb-in Crank Torque: 0 859 180 lb-in
05-01-09, 09:42 AM
#643
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slightly offtopic, but for anyone with a KK trainer and no real powermeter (or, a dedicated trainer bike?), looks like KK is coming out with a MUCH nicer looking computer than the previous one -
https://www.kurtkinetic.com/power-com...c-22-l-en.html
https://www.kurtkinetic.com/power-com...c-22-l-en.html
05-01-09, 09:58 AM
#644
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There was some context in that thread on the wattage group that has not come over to here. The OP's NP for what he said was not even a particularly hard effort blew away his FTP from testing. The OP also has not said what protocol was used for testing other than that it was indoors. There was such a large discrepancy, the question was really "which is wrong", hence the answer that Coggan would trust outdoor NP over an indoor test. In general though, you should be weary of an NP that has such as high VI as yours as it means there was a very large contribution from AWC.
05-01-09, 10:06 AM
#645
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There was some context in that thread on the wattage group that has not come over to here. The OP's NP for what he said was not even a particularly hard effort blew away his FTP from testing. The OP also has not said what protocol was used for testing other than that it was indoors. There was such a large discrepancy, the question was really "which is wrong", hence the answer that Coggan would trust outdoor NP over an indoor test. In general though, you should be weary of an NP that has such as high VI as yours as it means there was a very large contribution from AWC.
by weary (err, presumably, wary), though, do you mean i should discount it as a reasonable representation of NP, because it had so much AWC input? disregarding, for the moment, your other point about the "which is wrong" situation.
EDIT: actually, 'weary' is a good description of me after that ride..
05-01-09, 10:13 AM
#646
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yes, doh.
Not that it is not a reasonable representation of NP, just that you don't want to use an NP with a high VI to estimate FTP as it means you got a lot of "rest" which recharges your AWC which allows you to keep pumping out high-power efforts even though you would not be able to sustain a longer medium-power effort. The NP algorithm causes high power efforts to heavily weight it up, while low-power efforts do not drag it down as quickly as it would for AP. The idea of NP is that it estimates the equivalent metabolic effort, but that doesn't mean you would be able to sustain an equivalent steady-state power without the anaerobic contribution.
Not that it is not a reasonable representation of NP, just that you don't want to use an NP with a high VI to estimate FTP as it means you got a lot of "rest" which recharges your AWC which allows you to keep pumping out high-power efforts even though you would not be able to sustain a longer medium-power effort. The NP algorithm causes high power efforts to heavily weight it up, while low-power efforts do not drag it down as quickly as it would for AP. The idea of NP is that it estimates the equivalent metabolic effort, but that doesn't mean you would be able to sustain an equivalent steady-state power without the anaerobic contribution.
05-01-09, 10:31 AM
#647
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Not that it is not a reasonable representation of NP, just that you don't want to use an NP with a high VI to estimate FTP as it means you got a lot of "rest" which recharges your AWC which allows you to keep pumping out high-power efforts even though you would not be able to sustain a longer medium-power effort. The NP algorithm causes high power efforts to heavily weight it up, while low-power efforts do not drag it down as quickly as it would for AP. The idea of NP is that it estimates the equivalent metabolic effort, but that doesn't mean you would be able to sustain an equivalent steady-state power without the anaerobic contribution.
05-01-09, 07:22 PM
#648
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slightly offtopic, but for anyone with a KK trainer and no real powermeter (or, a dedicated trainer bike?), looks like KK is coming out with a MUCH nicer looking computer than the previous one -
https://www.kurtkinetic.com/power-com...c-22-l-en.html
https://www.kurtkinetic.com/power-com...c-22-l-en.html
05-01-09, 07:33 PM
#649
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