slim_77

WR's "2009 goals" thread triggered an interesting thought. If I plan to upgrade to 3s at a particular date midseason (a lofty, but not unrealistic goal) I therefore ought to train as a 3. I don't want to end my season on a low note, discouraged by my performance in longer, faster and more "tactical" races (more than the 4s, anyway).

Tactics I can't prepare for as that is primarily driven by experience. Nevertheless, I think I know the workouts, I think I know the time commitments-what else is there? Can the collective experience of higher cat BF racers offer a few winter/spring training tips this way?

After a season or two in the 3s, what advice would you offer an upstart? Anything you wish you knew?

for example, my race age is 33 and I plan on doubling up (4s & masters) on race days...I figure that can only help.

Thanks!

carpediemracing 

Train and race with faster riders.

I don't think your fitness will vary that much, unless you have a lot of room to grow fitness-wise. However I think that your peak numbers (max wattage, 1 and 5 minute numbers, and therefore top speed and top short-distance speed) will increase dramatically.

The more important thing will be to learn some of the subtleties of field riding, tactics, etc., i.e. when to use your power/speed and when not to use it.

I find that Cat 3s are a lot more tactical individually around here. You rarely get cooperation between teammates because they all want the same thing, and a lot of them end up working against each other, on purpose or not. This is when individual skills (moving up in a field, taking wheels, holding position) count a lot.

Masters races are essentially Cat 1-2-3-4 races. They are a lot more tactically from a team point of view, usually because a team will have one or two Cat 1s/2s (or should be 1s/2s) and a bunch of 3s and 4s. The disparity of abilities makes it a race amongst about 1/4 of the field, with the other 3/4 along for the ride. This is not quite the case in some races but in general it's the case. This means the contenders are extremely strong 3s or regular 1s/2s. Usually the 3s will go on to win/place the later Cat 3 only race, and the 1s/2s will be able to place in smaller P-1-2 races.

If you can do a few Cat 3-4 races I'd do them. Any Masters races if possible, esp flatter ones where speed is important. Masters races have the potential to be the fastest races you'll enter, but a 3-4 races are pretty consistently fast.

cdr

MDcatV

training wise, I dont think there's a big fitness differential between 3s and 4s. those that do well in cat 4 are the ones doing well in cat 3.

race as much as you can. use the masters races to learn. observe what is happening in the masters races, who is successful and how they're doing it. positioning, cornering, pack navigation, learn to do 'em efficiently with little to no wasted effort. if you're in position to get a result, do it, but make priority #1 to learn and develop skills.

use the cat 4 races for results, aim top 6 every race, that way you're getting upgrade points. in a cat 4 race, you should have the fitness to race very aggressively, and when it all comes together for a sprint finish, you should still be able to put yourself on the podium or top 6 every time. when you can do that, you know you're ready to move up.

slim_77

Interesting stuff. I was always under the impression that the 3s were on average much faster than 4s races and therefore fitness was a bigger key than what you guys imply. This spring I'll be learning the "no wasted effort" mantra the very hard way.

I still want to whip the peloton at my wheel... (seriously)

slim_77

...one more thing: is there any truth to the phrase "training as a cat 3"? Or is it just a novel phrase?

rizz

Ask ten people and you're likely to get ten answers.

I'm from the group that say yes as you'll be dealing with more intensity and volume while racing so why shouldn't your training match?

gsteinb

If the top 4s can race with the top 3s and the top 3s can race with the top 2s......

Duke of Kent

I don't necessarily agree with that.

Plenty of people that were winning slow 4s races that I never saw in the faster 3s races. Similarly, I was terrible in the 4s and earned every single one of my 3--->2 upgrade points by going off the front. Never contested a mass sprint. My fitness gain wasn't huge; the racing style in the 3s just suited me better.

Lithuania

it sounds like you actually agree with his point. fitness is nearly the same but racing smarts obviously is not.

Duke of Kent

Actually, looking at where I was when I first got my PT and where I was at the end of my season as a 3, I was mistaken.

Pretty decent gain in sustainable power. 280w to 325-330w for 20min.

Enough to take me from an also-ran to a contender in any race with some sort of elevation gain.

However, I think I would have done better in the 3s than I did in the 4s with half of that power gain; my body simply responds better to a constant or slightly variable pace than it does to the slow-fast-slow-fast style common in 4s crits.

slim_77

...ever hear of Mitochondrial Eve?

gsteinb

yeah, the good cat 3 crits start fast and get ballistic.

gsteinb

I'm clearly not smart enough to figure out how that relates to any of this.

slim_77

meh, just my attempt at a stretch of nerdy humor...was trying to say we're all the same.

gsteinb

ah. sorry, I'm having trouble spelling my name right now.

wfrogge

Different line of thought here but you should never "train as a (insert CAT)". You can only train at a level that your body can handle. Throwing mindless miles or intensity at it wont make you a faster cyclist.

In short you cannot just train like a 3 as that statement dosent make sense. 3's train just like 4's, 2's, and 1's do. Also I 100% disagree with CDR on this one... 99.9% of us here have the room to make HUGE gains fitness wise. Just depends on how bad you want it and if you can find and stick with a training plan that will get you there.

dmotoguy

I have to disagree.. A local racer was a slow cat 4 one season, falling off the back on most races.. he went nuts with his training over the winter.. doing 20+ hour weeks the whole way through, training for cat 2 length races and intensities...

He SMOKED the early season 4/5 races, then killed the 3's, and is now on a team of mostly cat 1's for next season..

slim_77

I agree with wfrogge's first point. This line of thought could easily lead one to overreach and burn out and is also counter to training your own weaknesses; that is, IF you are truly doing mindless random work.

Racer Ex 

Be honset about and train to your strengths. Then race to them. Too many 4's race like they are Cavendish while training the opposite.

While you're doubling up on the crits, take some time and watch the 3 race too so you can get a feel for how those races go. Wide range of tactical savy (from idiotic to high IQ), but 3's are generally as fast as the fast 4 races, they stay that way for a lot longer.

sgrundy

And for every case like that there's at least 10 riders who do the same and either:
-Burnout
-Overtrain
-Commit Suicide
-or-
-Still lose to the guy who did 10hrs of focused training every week

waterrockets 

You know, or 8 hours

127.0.0.1

double up the races is a perfect idea. go with it

JPradun

Cat3 races aren't much faster. The big difference is that they stop slamming on the brakes for every single turn...or straight away, for that matter.

The attacks in 3's last longer. When the top guys decide to hammer it, it doesn't stop until a breakaway is formed. If everyone tries holding onto an attack, it will last at least 2-3x longer than any cat4 attack.

Other than that, I agree with whoever was talking above. The best cat4s do well in cat3s. I was pretty good when I moved from 4-3 and my first race was 19th of 75 during memorial day weekend in iowa (ie, fast as sh*t). There's always the people looking to upgrade to 2's, though.

wfrogge

For every CAT 1 that puts in 20 hours a week I can show you 3 (cause thats all I know ) that are on a national level and dont put in more than 15 at most. Its not about how many hours you train but what you do during those hours.

You cant just throw 20 hours a week at cycling and expect to be awesome. If it were that easy there would be many more CAT 1s running around.

Kai Winters

What do you want to do and/or achieve?
What kind of races did you race as a 3? How many? How did you finish? What are your strengths and weaknesses?
What kind of time do you have to give to racing?
What kind of responsibilities do you have that will impact moving up in category? Career, wife, family, etc.
No disrespect intended, I started racing at 27, but at 33 you may find yourself a bit limited not only by age but the trappings that "age" acquires wanted or not lol.