asgelle

So are you suggesting a statement such as, "Think about how long you're likely to be in front in a road race, how close you'll come to the drag of a P3, ..." is in order? Reading is FUNdamental.

Sorry, that is not the question. That is obvious by looking at the only possible answer: Yes an aero road frame does offer an advantage. So what? While that is true, it does nothing to guide equipment selection much less purchase. The proper question is, "How much of an advantage does an aero frame (or whatever else may be under discussion) provide?" Only with that information can informed decisions. be made.
Sorry, it's indisputible that an aero frame makes one faster. The proper question is how much faster and what are the trade-offs to get that. (Notice a pattern here?)

ridethecliche

Throwing you more options:

https://www.neuvationcycling.com/product93.html

SushiJoe

I like the Felt AR.

Carry on.

nafun

Yikes. If $1300 is disposable you're a lucky man.

tanhalt

I said "nearly"...but, think of it this way...which would you rather have to replace after crashing out and ruining it in a crit, a $1300 list Soloist Team (now called an S1), or a $4500 carbon wonderbike like a Cervelo S3??

It also seems to me that the carbon frames are more likely to suffer a "catastrophic" failure due to crash damage than an aluminum frame. I've gone down a couple of times on my Aluminum Soloist and it's no worse for the wear...I've seen much less serious crashes than mine completely destroy a carbon frame.

YMMV

ridethecliche

One of the reasons I bought a CAAD9 was the low cost of replacing the frameset under cannondale's policy.
The frame is a bonafide crit frame

SushiJoe

My race bike will likely be aluminum as well.

brianappleby

also worth noting that a lot of the aero frames out there, (Ridley, Cervelo, maybe felt too) are just good frames to begin with. Stiff, decent geometry, etc.

patentcad

Sorry Willy, but your results are 99% you, 1% Cervelo. That being said, I bought the Cervelo S2 which is 200 grams heavier than some similarly priced CF frames because I think aero is a bigger factor than weight for me.

That and it looks really cool. More the latter. Hey, that's a prefect excuse to post that S2 picture again.

DrWJODonnell

Sure, blame me.

oh, and "Say, That's a NICE bike."

gsteinb

Aren't you in the process of acquiring some other bike, Will?

Val23708

if both bikes handle just as well, fit the same, etc etc but one is aero and one isnt, why not take the aero one? the soloist team/s1 makes a great crit bike btw.

patentcad

Take everything Will says a grain of aero salt. When he sees me last time he doesn't say a word, but points in horror (he was shaking all over) at my FSA K-wing bars, which struck him as some non-aero blasphemy. He's fast on the bike, but he's a total friggin whack case.

On the other hand anybody who rides Cervelos and drives a Prius can't be all bad.

patentcad

After three years on the Cannondale Six13 with its aluminum rear triangle, I am continuously amazed at the comfortable ride of the rear end on that bike. The degree to which Cannondale has refined that CAAD 8-9 aluminum frame design is about the most amazing bike frame design innovation I've experienced over 25+ years of riding high end race bikes. If you ever rode the CAAD frames from ten years ago and then rode a Six13 with a newer generation alu rear triangle, you'd know what I'm talking about. The CAAD 3 I owned in the late 90's was a great race bike, but had a bone jarring ride. The newer bike (essentially a CAAD 8/9 with CF main tubes, alu rear triangle) retains what I liked about the CAAD 3, but adds a compliant rear triangle ride that's almost Ti-like.

king-tony

My next frame will be more aero and less light. I've already decided that I will run deep wheels in almost every RR next year. After spending a couple of days at a wind tunnel, I have really begun to understand the difference it makes. In most cases, you really are not giving up that much to be more aero.

DrWJODonnell

Someone has been spending too much time in the shop! I am TRYING a new bike. Actually, the goal will be to take the Soloist, the Felt AR4, and the Noah into the tunnel. But rumor has it, SOME BFers like the Noah of all things!?!

To the OP, aero is good. Find yourself an Alu soloist, or you can find a used SLC for probably 1300.

ridethecliche

Yeah, I bet the frame is aero as all heck, and I'd love one, but I just don't find the frame all that attractive...

gsteinb

Fact. And on the interweb, as well.

But you're really bringing three road frames to test in the tunnel? A bit much to beat up on the threes, no?

brianappleby

Aero road frames in a wind tunnel, and not paid for my a bike company, you NEED to share those results please. I'd honestly pay for that sort of information. I know time is limited, but may I suggest a non-aero control bike?

I'm also really curious as to the price of exposed shifter cables (Pre-7900 Shimano) compared to ones that go completely under the bars. That seems like a really tedious test however.

When are you going in?

asgelle

You mean like referenced in Post #2? https://www.amazon.com/High-Performan...8674854&sr=8-1

As to the effect of exposed cables, that's easy to estimate. At normal cycling speeds, Cd=1 for a cylinder in cross flow; so F_d = 1/2 rho v^2 (D*L) where D is the diameter of the cable housing or exposed cable and L is its length. rho is air density v is velocity.

brianappleby

Yay for oversimplification. How much extra cable is exposed by running the cables out of the shifters instead of through the bars? Will the exposed housing shield the frame from the wind? The cylinder axis is only perpendicular to air flow for 2-3 inches, what's the Cd for a cylinder at an angle? Should I integrate over 90 degrees for each housing to incorporate the curve?

asgelle

Not oversimplification, realistic appraisal of accumulated errors and uncertainties. There are myriad factors that can affect the value, where knowledge and experience come to play is knowing which ones are relevant and which are just butterflies.

DrWJODonnell

I have been told (and may try to verify) that cable with housing is ~1 watt per perpendicular inch to the wind. Exposed cable is half of that.

cslone

I'm trying to find it but Dr. Coggan has a post somewhere that equates inches of exposed cable to time savings, I think in meters/sec.

Racer Ex 

Rumor has it the Noah fits perfectly in the back of a Prius too.