Ibike pro powermeter
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ibike pro powermeter
Hi,
Has anyone tried this new powermeter and is it any good?? I can't find anything about it on the net so I'm very interested in hearing some comments about it.
[removed by admin]
Has anyone tried this new powermeter and is it any good?? I can't find anything about it on the net so I'm very interested in hearing some comments about it.
[removed by admin]
Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 12-12-08 at 11:37 PM.
#2
Ink-Stained Wretch
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Holyoke, MA
Posts: 1,731
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well it just was introduced at interbike so yah you're not going to find much, but buy a real power meter not something that measures everything else then infers your wattage...
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It looks like it is built around the same principles of the HAC 4, which is very inaccurate in terms of power measurement. I'm just going to wait until I save up enough to buy a PT
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
they don't seem to be revealing too many details on how this thing works, but from what i can gather the take speed, wind pressure, weight, gradient, acceleration etc and turn that into a power reading.
But i can't see how that can be anything but a VERY crude estimation because in most cases the majority of resistance to forward motion comes from wind resistance of the rider. but every rider is different even if they weigh the same, and this changes with the size of the rider, their position... how much he or she is tucked, what they are wearing etc. so i can't see how this can be accurate at all?? the only thing they seem to be using to customize the reading to the rider is his or her weight but me an someone else may have vastly different positions on the bike and even one person may have different power reading based on their position at any given time during a ride so the power reading have got to be way off in certain situations... the other features seem pretty cool but for power reading i think you better look at an SRM, PT, Ergomo or even the polar... as expensive as they are.
But i can't see how that can be anything but a VERY crude estimation because in most cases the majority of resistance to forward motion comes from wind resistance of the rider. but every rider is different even if they weigh the same, and this changes with the size of the rider, their position... how much he or she is tucked, what they are wearing etc. so i can't see how this can be accurate at all?? the only thing they seem to be using to customize the reading to the rider is his or her weight but me an someone else may have vastly different positions on the bike and even one person may have different power reading based on their position at any given time during a ride so the power reading have got to be way off in certain situations... the other features seem pretty cool but for power reading i think you better look at an SRM, PT, Ergomo or even the polar... as expensive as they are.
#5
El Diablo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Posts: 2,750
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There was a post about this unit about a week ago on the Texas Bicycle Racing Association website by someone involved in it's development. It's based on windspeed/bike speed to determain watts so it isn't very accurate. If you want accurate measurement you need a PowerTap/SRM/Ergometer. These devices are not cheap but they do what they promise. I used a HAC (which is simular to this unit) for years, when I got my PTP I used them side by side and HAC was reading over 50% different than the PTP. I've done side by side comparasons with my buddy and his SRM and the PTP is within 2 watts of what he getting.
__________________
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
#6
Dancing on the Pedals
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cut to the chase in your search and buy the real thing:
www.srm.de
Gotta shell out the bucks though at over $ 3,000.00
Corsaire
www.srm.de
Gotta shell out the bucks though at over $ 3,000.00
Corsaire
#7
El Diablo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Posts: 2,750
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Corsaire
Cut to the chase in your search and buy the real thing:
www.srm.de
Gotta shell out the bucks though at over $ 3,000.00
Corsaire
www.srm.de
Gotta shell out the bucks though at over $ 3,000.00
Corsaire
Advantages of the SRM you can use any wheelset which means you can have it durring your races. Disadvantage cost, 80% more than a PTP and no more accurate. I got my PTP used (barely) for 450 with a second bike kit and a Mavic CPX33 rear wheel. This is an unusually good deal but I see them all day on ebay for under 1k.
__________________
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
#8
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The HAC4 uses a barometric pressure sensor to detect altitude changes and from that they try to figure the watts used in climbing hills. However, everybody knows that baro sensors are slow to react (you gotta climb 100 feet before it even registers!) and worse yet, baro sensor altitude measurements fail completely when the weather changes. So, there's a real issue with hill power accuracy.
Also, the HAC4 doesn't measure wind speed, so it can't measure aero power.
It has no way to determine rolling resistance.
In short, it's not surprising the HAC4 has accuracy issues.
The iBike guys say they measure elevation changes using a completely different sensor--an inclinometer--that is very sensitive and fast.
Their website photo shows a pressure gauge at the front of the product, so quite clearly they're measuring wind.
Their FAQ section says they measure aerodynamic and rolling resistance drag coefficients, so they're accounting for those factors.
We haven't seen the tests yet, but it seems like they've thought about all the issues and they're claiming they have accuracy comparable to the expensive power meters.
Maybe they're on to something.
Also, the HAC4 doesn't measure wind speed, so it can't measure aero power.
It has no way to determine rolling resistance.
In short, it's not surprising the HAC4 has accuracy issues.
The iBike guys say they measure elevation changes using a completely different sensor--an inclinometer--that is very sensitive and fast.
Their website photo shows a pressure gauge at the front of the product, so quite clearly they're measuring wind.
Their FAQ section says they measure aerodynamic and rolling resistance drag coefficients, so they're accounting for those factors.
We haven't seen the tests yet, but it seems like they've thought about all the issues and they're claiming they have accuracy comparable to the expensive power meters.
Maybe they're on to something.
#9
El Diablo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Posts: 2,750
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kyzyl2
The HAC4 uses a barometric pressure sensor to detect altitude changes and from that they try to figure the watts used in climbing hills. However, everybody knows that baro sensors are slow to react (you gotta climb 100 feet before it even registers!) and worse yet, baro sensor altitude measurements fail completely when the weather changes. So, there's a real issue with hill power accuracy.
Also, the HAC4 doesn't measure wind speed, so it can't measure aero power.
It has no way to determine rolling resistance.
In short, it's not surprising the HAC4 has accuracy issues.
The iBike guys say they measure elevation changes using a completely different sensor--an inclinometer--that is very sensitive and fast.
Their website photo shows a pressure gauge at the front of the product, so quite clearly they're measuring wind.
Their FAQ section says they measure aerodynamic and rolling resistance drag coefficients, so they're accounting for those factors.
We haven't seen the tests yet, but it seems like they've thought about all the issues and they're claiming they have accuracy comparable to the expensive power meters.
Maybe they're on to something.
Also, the HAC4 doesn't measure wind speed, so it can't measure aero power.
It has no way to determine rolling resistance.
In short, it's not surprising the HAC4 has accuracy issues.
The iBike guys say they measure elevation changes using a completely different sensor--an inclinometer--that is very sensitive and fast.
Their website photo shows a pressure gauge at the front of the product, so quite clearly they're measuring wind.
Their FAQ section says they measure aerodynamic and rolling resistance drag coefficients, so they're accounting for those factors.
We haven't seen the tests yet, but it seems like they've thought about all the issues and they're claiming they have accuracy comparable to the expensive power meters.
Maybe they're on to something.
__________________
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
#10
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I suggest you spend some time looking carefully at their website, www.ibikesports.com. They have a video that explains how the iBike works, and a pretty big FAQ page.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kyzyl2
I suggest you spend some time looking carefully at their website, www.ibikesports.com. They have a video that explains how the iBike works, and a pretty big FAQ page.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
#12
Senior Member
Originally Posted by kyzyl2
I suggest you spend some time looking carefully at their website, www.ibikesports.com. They have a video that explains how the iBike works, and a pretty big FAQ page.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
Among the things their website explains is that Newton's Third Law requires that the forces applied by the cyclist on the pedals MUST exactly equal the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. The iBike accurately measures the forces opposing the cyclist's forward motion. That fact, in combination with Newton's Third Law, is why the iBike achieves accuracy comparable to high-end pedal-force power meters.
Sure they know the power equation:
power = force x speed ; (actually speed=distance/time)
But how are they measuring that force? They're NOT, they're making guesses and calculations without actually measuring force. I'd be surprized in a simultaneous comparison with an SRM or Powertap on the same bike that the iBike would anywhere close to within +/- 10% of accurate compared to something that measures actual force at the pedals or hubs directly.
Here's a quote from their website which sums up the inaccuracies:
3. What if I change riding position, how does that impact the iBike wattage reading?
Most riders stay in the same position about 90% of the time or more, so the percentage of the total ride where there is a wattage difference won't be great. The iBike Pro assumes that the athlete remains in the same riding position, so changes in riding position will not be reflected by changes in the iBike's wattage readings.
Most riders stay in the same position about 90% of the time or more, so the percentage of the total ride where there is a wattage difference won't be great. The iBike Pro assumes that the athlete remains in the same riding position, so changes in riding position will not be reflected by changes in the iBike's wattage readings.
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 10-14-05 at 04:10 PM.
#13
El Diablo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin Tx, Ex So Cal
Posts: 2,750
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8/Record 10s, Felt DA700 Chorus 10s,
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Newtons third law not withstanding how would this device account for the fact that I'm doing big gear spin ups. For example the force I'm putting on the pedals when I start from say 10mph in a 53/11 at say 40rpm and spun up to 90rpm. Wouldn't the watt's and torque generated at the lower rpm's be greater than at the higher rpms? My PTP shure says so.
__________________
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
Campy Neutrons for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...86#post2464586
HAC4 for sale!
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...83#post2478083
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
DannoXYZ - the rider does enter his/her weight into the unit so it actually should do a decent job at calculating power going up hill especially since the speeds are lower so drag is less of an issue... except how does it know how much water you have on board
2Rodies - the unit should be able to detect if the rider is accelerating and at what rate and it knows the riders weight so it should be able to account for that...
the only thing I see this unit cannot do is calculate a rider's/bike's drag... the real problem with this is that this is the single biggest opposing force to the cyclist's forward motion
another quote below... this is pretty bad... it's really missleading because the other manufactures give accuracy for instantaneous measures while these guys give it for the duration of a whole ride?? how does that help me?? if i'm looking at my power meter i want to know what my reading is right now so i know if i'm doing the workout i'm supposed to be doing... my ave power for the duration of the ride is nice but it's not going to help me get my workout done properly... so in terms of instaneous measure like eveyone else does it... a 7.5% accuracy while a PT, even the cheapo one has an accuracy of 1.5%... but in reality this iBike meter is going to be off way more than 7.5% in certain instances... try 15-20%
"Let's suppose that the rider is out of his normal riding position on the hoods and that this is causing a 10% underreporting of aero watts. The iBike Pro would be reporting 200W instead of 215W. The total wattage variance at this particular instant of the ride would be 215W/200W = 7.5%, not 10%, and only for that portion of the ride. If the iBike is off by 7.5% for 10% of the time due to riding in the drops, the net error over the whole ride is only 0.75%. That's less than 1% and is well within the accuracy range of competitive products." WTF??
2Rodies - the unit should be able to detect if the rider is accelerating and at what rate and it knows the riders weight so it should be able to account for that...
the only thing I see this unit cannot do is calculate a rider's/bike's drag... the real problem with this is that this is the single biggest opposing force to the cyclist's forward motion
another quote below... this is pretty bad... it's really missleading because the other manufactures give accuracy for instantaneous measures while these guys give it for the duration of a whole ride?? how does that help me?? if i'm looking at my power meter i want to know what my reading is right now so i know if i'm doing the workout i'm supposed to be doing... my ave power for the duration of the ride is nice but it's not going to help me get my workout done properly... so in terms of instaneous measure like eveyone else does it... a 7.5% accuracy while a PT, even the cheapo one has an accuracy of 1.5%... but in reality this iBike meter is going to be off way more than 7.5% in certain instances... try 15-20%
"Let's suppose that the rider is out of his normal riding position on the hoods and that this is causing a 10% underreporting of aero watts. The iBike Pro would be reporting 200W instead of 215W. The total wattage variance at this particular instant of the ride would be 215W/200W = 7.5%, not 10%, and only for that portion of the ride. If the iBike is off by 7.5% for 10% of the time due to riding in the drops, the net error over the whole ride is only 0.75%. That's less than 1% and is well within the accuracy range of competitive products." WTF??
#16
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
iBike Gen III
This is a very old and out-of-date thread. In fact, every posting made here was written in 2005, at least 8 months before the first iBike shipped in mid-2006!
To get current (and fact-based) information and comparative data about the new iBike Gen III (December 2008) please visit [removed by admin]
To get current (and fact-based) information and comparative data about the new iBike Gen III (December 2008) please visit [removed by admin]
Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 12-12-08 at 11:38 PM. Reason: advertising
#18
Formerly Known as Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 6,249
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
kyzyl, welcome back.
Just asking: you registered back in 2005, seemingly just to post in this one thread. Now, after a three year hiatus you post again - in the same thread. Are you somehow connected with ibikesports?
--J
Just asking: you registered back in 2005, seemingly just to post in this one thread. Now, after a three year hiatus you post again - in the same thread. Are you somehow connected with ibikesports?
--J
__________________
To err is human. To moo is bovine.
Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?
Become a Registered Member in Bike Forums
Community guidelines
To err is human. To moo is bovine.
Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?
Become a Registered Member in Bike Forums
Community guidelines
#21
half man - half sheep
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big Mineral arm - Lake Texoma (Pottsboro, Tx)
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The accepted method of spamming these boards is to hire an army of shills - see BikesDirect model for an example.
Now send me one of them gadgets and we'll get the process moving. I'm for sale.
Now send me one of them gadgets and we'll get the process moving. I'm for sale.
#22
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, I work for Velocomp.
I made this posting because this thread shows up on web searches for the iBike and I wanted to be sure that visitors to the thread knew that the iBike had changed considerably since these very early postings!
I made this posting because this thread shows up on web searches for the iBike and I wanted to be sure that visitors to the thread knew that the iBike had changed considerably since these very early postings!
#24
Carpe Diem
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Posts: 13,149
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!