FTP and the real world...
#1
carbon is too light
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,260
Bikes: Yes.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times
in
160 Posts
FTP and the real world...
So a family member who was a top Cat 1 in Texas, won the state championship TT 5ish years ago (I think around 53 minutes), tells me that he won on an average 310 watts as calculated by his SRM. He weighed about 155, so he wasn't exactly super small either. He also won a time trial at a stage race (I think fayetteville?), P/1/2 field, with less than 290 watts on average.
So what is the deal with that? How can he win the state championship with only 310 watts, but there are Cat 3 and 4's with with supposedly over 300 watt FTPs that are having a hard time catting up?
So what is the deal with that? How can he win the state championship with only 310 watts, but there are Cat 3 and 4's with with supposedly over 300 watt FTPs that are having a hard time catting up?
#2
CAT = 5
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MABRA
Posts: 244
Bikes: 2001 Caad 5; PF RS2; Ridley Noah; Trek Fuel
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Being The fastest/strongest cyclist doesn't necessarily mean you win the race.
(It sure helps though)
(It sure helps though)
#3
Making a kilometer blurry
To quote a famous hammerhead BFer, "TTs are about efficiency, not power."
I'm horribly inefficient, so I need more power. Think of me as the Hummer H2 of time trialing (round-tube road bike, road helmet, etc.).
Last year's TX state TT champ had (I believe) an FTP of ~300W.
I'm horribly inefficient, so I need more power. Think of me as the Hummer H2 of time trialing (round-tube road bike, road helmet, etc.).
Last year's TX state TT champ had (I believe) an FTP of ~300W.
#4
Ninja don't wear flipflop
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE TN
Posts: 1,443
Bikes: Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL3, BMC TM01...if it every ships
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There are many parts to a good TT. The size of a rider is important, but the shape (e.g. position) is more important. Also, pacing is extremely important. 310 watt average could have been 340 into the wind and 280 with a tail. If he had an SRM 5 years ago he was quite a bit ahead of most of the field in that regard.
#5
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
....because results are not based on powerfiles....
....unless it's an indoor TT...
...where was I?
....unless it's an indoor TT...
...where was I?
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
#6
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Because he's smaller he has a smaller frontal profile and probably a better position. Also 4.2w/kg is not terrible.
#7
County sign fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Zanesville, Oh
Posts: 782
Bikes: Masi Gran Criterium (training), looking for the money for a racing bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#10
Overacting because I can
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Posts: 4,552
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
All true. It's also possible that some of the Cat 4 claimants to 300watt FTPs are 1) improperly extrapolating from shorter efforts or 2) posting on BF, where all numbers are inflated by 15% by what must be an automatic java script.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
#11
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
...but we're fat. Both of us at 3.3 w/kg.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
#12
My idea of fun
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,920
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times
in
36 Posts
It doesn't mean I'm not pack fodder.
#13
Glorified Blender
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
As another data point, I'm in that same ballpark, but spent half of last season getting dropped.
Having decent strength doesn't necessarily equate to performance in races (read: I race like a moron).
Having decent strength doesn't necessarily equate to performance in races (read: I race like a moron).
#14
My idea of fun
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,920
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times
in
36 Posts
BTW -- did you get Tal's email?
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Some of us are just plain fat so the numbers ARE accurate.
#17
County sign fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Zanesville, Oh
Posts: 782
Bikes: Masi Gran Criterium (training), looking for the money for a racing bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#18
County sign fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Zanesville, Oh
Posts: 782
Bikes: Masi Gran Criterium (training), looking for the money for a racing bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
oh, and I can verify that a 310w FTP is enough power to lap a cat 4 crit field.
race smart AND hard
race smart AND hard
#19
Glorified Blender
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Man oh man, I've got to either move or take some more road trips this season.
#20
Elite Fred
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times
in
19 Posts
#21
Cat WTF
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've not read the other replies, but around here (Ohio) the best time trialers (trialists?) are cat 3's or 4's. Just because you can push XXX watts for 50 minutes in a time trial does NOT mean you can win/place/show in 3 hour road races or technical crits. There are several guys I know who don't do anything other than time trials to begin with.
#23
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
#24
Ninja don't wear flipflop
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE TN
Posts: 1,443
Bikes: Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL3, BMC TM01...if it every ships
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#25
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
Out of boredom ran the 310 watt lapping Cat 4 field hypothesis through Kruezotter. Assumed 150lb rider in the drops, with a 16lb bike, flat course, no wind.
Our breakaway canidate does 24.8mph at FTP. That is not going to keep you off the front of a Cat 4 crit. Even assuming the hypothetical rider could maintain say 350 watts for 20 minutes or so (a charitable assumption) he's still under 26mph, and that's not staying away in a Cat 4 crit.
Our breakaway canidate does 24.8mph at FTP. That is not going to keep you off the front of a Cat 4 crit. Even assuming the hypothetical rider could maintain say 350 watts for 20 minutes or so (a charitable assumption) he's still under 26mph, and that's not staying away in a Cat 4 crit.