Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-15-08, 02:16 PM   #1
pjcampbell
fair weather cyclist
Thread Starter
 
pjcampbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Green Mountains
Bikes: Colnago c50
Posts: 1,337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Timing...

If you ever do a triathlon you notice they all do chip timing. I did one race recently, where they had the results broadcast to the internet within minutes, from the race site. How frustrating is it when you do a race, you came in like 13th and they don't even acknowledge you finished.

Around here nobody does chip timing. I'm wondering what one could charge for timing an event, considering the chips cost 100 bucks a pop at wholesale. I have no clue what timing costs in general???
pjcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 02:42 PM   #2
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
If you ever do a triathlon you notice they all do chip timing. I did one race recently, where they had the results broadcast to the internet within minutes, from the race site. How frustrating is it when you do a race, you came in like 13th and they don't even acknowledge you finished.

Around here nobody does chip timing. I'm wondering what one could charge for timing an event, considering the chips cost 100 bucks a pop at wholesale. I have no clue what timing costs in general???
Bike racing isn't triathlon. In general, nobody cares if you finished out of the top ten.

Participation medals = not bike racing.
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 02:45 PM   #3
snoboard2
County sign fanatic
 
snoboard2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Zanesville, Oh
Bikes: Masi Gran Criterium (training), looking for the money for a racing bike
Posts: 782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
don't come in 13th
snoboard2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 02:47 PM   #4
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are a lot of bike races that use chip timing. The ones I have ben in have been just as poor at scoring as any other. In other words the chips don't necessarily make anything better.
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 02:50 PM   #5
king-tony
Ninja don't wear flipflop
 
king-tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE TN
Bikes: Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL3, BMC TM01...if it every ships
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've raced with chips before. The results were no quicker as they had a lot of trouble with the technology. The only cool thing was comparing lap times during the crit.
king-tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 02:52 PM   #6
esammuli
Glimmers of form
 
esammuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Escondido, CA
Bikes: Cannondale SystemSix 3, Specialized Stumpjumper M4 Comp
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
There are a lot of bike races that use chip timing. The ones I have ben in have been just as poor at scoring as any other. In other words the chips don't necessarily make anything better.
+1

I went to Sea Otter in 2007 and the chip timing was terrible. The results were screwy and it took them forever to post. Not to mention it's very expensive.
esammuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 04:06 PM   #7
pjcampbell
fair weather cyclist
Thread Starter
 
pjcampbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Green Mountains
Bikes: Colnago c50
Posts: 1,337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not sure why the chip timing should be bad... perhaps people who didn't know how to use the system? With a chip it pretty much either works or it doesn't... I am looking at this from a timers perspective not a racer who comes in 13th.
pjcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 04:49 PM   #8
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
Not sure why the chip timing should be bad... perhaps people who didn't know how to use the system? With a chip it pretty much either works or it doesn't... I am looking at this from a timers perspective not a racer who comes in 13th.
The issue at the events I have been at has been mainly keeping track of who got which chips, running out of chips. It seems like they had problems with pre-laps and free-laps as well although I may be wrong about that.

I have done 2 races with chips and one "ride" with a chip an pretty much everything has been kind of worthless. The problem shouldn't be with the technology, but how it seems to get deployed.

Remember if your officials take an hour to post results like ours do what makes you think adding a layer of complexity to it (they will still keep manual score) will make it any easier or efficient? It's kind of a novelty after the fact.....WAY after the fact.
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 05:36 PM   #9
ottsville
sidelined
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Bikes: 2005 Scattante R660, Kona Race Light SS conversion, 2007 Schwinn Fastback CX
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post

Participation medals = not bike racing.
+1

We just had our state racing assoc. meeting and discussed chip timing. It is very expensive overall...something like $7k for the timing system minus the chips. Which means race fees would have to go up. For tri geeks who do a handful of races a year, paying $70 and up per race is no big deal. It's a little different for guys racing 2 days 3 weekends a month for 6 months.

And the fact is that the results that matter can be posted just as quickly by hand scoring events since you still have to verify the chip results. Chip timing does allow for posting results deeper though, but who really cares about being 23rd in a 50 man field?
ottsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 05:51 PM   #10
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,833
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
Not sure why the chip timing should be bad... perhaps people who didn't know how to use the system? With a chip it pretty much either works or it doesn't... I am looking at this from a timers perspective not a racer who comes in 13th.
What does time matter, outside of a time trial?

It's the first man who crosses the line. Simple as that.
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 06:25 PM   #11
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,484
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Sea Otter has chip timing, charges like you are buying the chips, then hoses the results after a 4 hour wait.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 06:46 PM   #12
king-tony
Ninja don't wear flipflop
 
king-tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NE TN
Bikes: Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL3, BMC TM01...if it every ships
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
What does time matter, outside of a time trial?

It's the first man who crosses the line. Simple as that.
What kind of question is this? Chip timing allows me to taunt 32nd - 54th place with e-mails about how badly I beat them.
king-tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-08, 06:49 PM   #13
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,833
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by king-tony View Post
What kind of question is this? Chip timing allows me to taunt 32nd - 54th place with e-mails about how badly I beat them.
Hmmm. You raise a good point. Now I can ridicule the three people that finish behind me at Elk Grove next year after I blow sky high with a mile to go.
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 01:12 PM   #14
pjcampbell
fair weather cyclist
Thread Starter
 
pjcampbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Green Mountains
Bikes: Colnago c50
Posts: 1,337
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i am surprised at the responses here. i would have expected fast, accurate results would be something all cyclists would appreciate whether first or last place.

the same can be said about a triathlon -- that place is all that matters, but that does not stop them from giving out splits for every leg + transition area. i am not trying to compare triathlon to bike racing. i've done a LOT of bike races, and 2 triathlons and in those 2 triathlons, results and reporting was better than any bike race I've ever done, with exception of Westwood Velo's time trials. why do cyclists not demand the same???

I was looking into buying a timing system... trying to get a very rough idea as to what one could charge for timing, or what it might be worth to a promoter/race director.
pjcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 01:14 PM   #15
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
i am surprised at the responses here. i would have expected fast, accurate results would be something all cyclists would appreciate whether first or last place.
The experiences shared in this thread indicate that the results generated from electronic timing systems are neither fast nor accurate.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 01:32 PM   #16
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,833
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
i am surprised at the responses here. i would have expected fast, accurate results would be something all cyclists would appreciate whether first or last place.

the same can be said about a triathlon -- that place is all that matters, but that does not stop them from giving out splits for every leg + transition area. i am not trying to compare triathlon to bike racing. i've done a LOT of bike races, and 2 triathlons and in those 2 triathlons, results and reporting was better than any bike race I've ever done, with exception of Westwood Velo's time trials. why do cyclists not demand the same???

I was looking into buying a timing system... trying to get a very rough idea as to what one could charge for timing, or what it might be worth to a promoter/race director.
I've never had to wait more than an hour for results. And the longest wait was for something I would never trust a chip for; a photo-finish between my teammate and a Time Factory Pro Team dude.

And if people want to see data from their races, they can extrapolate it rather easily from their HRM or powermeter. Lap times, average speed, HR are all quite simple to figure out, and the people that are interested in that information can access it if they desire. Why should everyone else be forced to pay to see information for which they have no need?
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 01:38 PM   #17
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
The experiences shared in this thread indicate that the results generated from electronic timing systems are neither fast nor accurate.
Yup.

There is a reason we got to the method of scoring that we have...experience. Instead of trying to change the method of scoring to match what electronic timing systems were designed to do (which is what people try to do and tend to fail at) one should look at creating an electronic scoring system based on our system of scoring.

....it's not time based....it's position based.

Goes to DOK's point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent
What does time matter, outside of a time trial?

It's the first man who crosses the line. Simple as that.
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 01:38 PM   #18
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I wonder what system they use at the Grand Tours... those little yellow boxes that hang from the chainstays.

__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-08, 02:47 PM   #19
ottsville
sidelined
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Bikes: 2005 Scattante R660, Kona Race Light SS conversion, 2007 Schwinn Fastback CX
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
I wonder what system they use at the Grand Tours... those little yellow boxes that hang from the chainstays.
Believe it is AMD's system. Very expensive, and they still verify the results visually.
ottsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 AM.