dgearhart

Another thread got me thinking about a question that probably many people on the forum can answer from experience. In a couple Cat 4 races last year, the pack chased me immediately on breakaway attempts. I have a strong sprint and 1min/5min power to create quick separation, but it is useless when the entire pack chases.

Question: What tactics have people found to be successful creating breakaways in Cat 4 races aside from getting their team to block from the front. (i.e. Dangle out front, flyer from the back, etc...)

jfmckenna

If you have a team willing to work that's great but they have to be well organized. The successful breakes I've been in as a cat 4 happened because people know who you are in the field and you know who they are and you know who is capable. Only go with people you know can stick to it, the TT guys, the guy that won last weeks race, that sort of thing. It's hard to stay off the front of any field in a small group so if you have people in there that cannot work hard you are doomed and will wear yourself out.

urbanknight

With a team, you need people who can block by controlling the front of the pack while you roll away. Without a team, I suggest you wait until the last corner and then latch onto any idiot who sprints too early and use him for your leadout.

Apus^2

The cat 4 breaks I have been in have been on courses and climates that punish the riders so the chase does not want to work. Nobody else wants to get organized. One of these was a crit with a huge climb at the start finish. Once we were off the front, that was it.

Block--If you have a well organized team, have them get up front and set a false tempo. You'd be surprised at how many people are just willing to follow the person at the front.

procrit

When was the last time Cavendish won from a solo attack? When was the last time Cadel Evans won a sprint?

In other words, if you have a strong sprint and 1/5 minute power, why are you trying to ride away for the win? Make sure attacks don't get away, stay in good position, then sprint for the win.

MDcatV

best strategy when I was a 4 (keep in mind I was the only 4 on my team when I was a 4) was to talk with others you know want to break away and agree that you'll work together, then let the legs sort it out after you get your gap.

this worked multiple times for me/a few others until the rest of the field figured out what we were doing and began acting like we were teammates.

if you've got #s, (i.e. either a big team), have a team mate attack, let others chase, when together immediately have another teammate attack, etc. repeat until the elastic snaps and you've got someone, hopefully yourself, in a good mix up the road. this can be a really fun way to race, but the teammates doing the attacking really need to be committed, and be willing to not finish the race. this includes you when your # is called. doing this halfway is probably worse than not doing any animating at all.

queerpunk

Use the terrain to your advantage and take chances on attacks when people are less likely to want to stress themselves. Maybe just before a climb, even if it's small - if you attack and people do chase, things may fracture under the effort and it could buy you more time. Or, very late in the race (<1mile to go?), when nobody has a leadout train like strong teams do, and everyone is scrambling for a wheel and saving energy for the sprint, give it a shot.

Even if you're not on a team that doesn't have to stop you from working with other people. Find some kindred spirits and work with them - "Hey, can you sit at the front and keep the pace in check while I try an attack?" Then throw out a big effort, at speed when you're passing the front, and hope people don't come around your new buddies.

Or just hang out and wait for the sprint.

heads up!

truth.

slim_77

I like what MDcatV said, because that was how a few of the top 4s (including a teammate) divided the races last year, I was still a 5 at the time. I've been thinking about this lately. Choose opportune times, like queerpunk said. In the flatlands we don't have hills so the times when the field is not going to want to chase could be just after a prime. Mind you this may only work if you can TT. If not, talk to a few strong guys on smaller teams before the race and all agree to go to the front and drive the pace for a few laps till the filed splits. This will catch some stronger riders who are sitting in the middle or back. From there let the legs sort it out.

The only time I got any separation last season is when I was in a 3 man break with two guys on one of the bigger teams. The others, I was nearly caught on the wrong side of the divide and jumped up to the lead group of 10-15 riders just as the break happened (I was two riders behind the break and could see it).

cmh

This is the way to do it.

Doggus

Sandbag. It worked well at Copperas this year...well, almost.

127.0.0.1

hey just keep racing and making breaks and getting caught

if you like that sort of stuff, eventually you will harden up and one day you won't get caught.
but you gotta ride a lot on non-race days. by a lot I mean 300 or more miles a week.

nothing beats long hard hours between races.

dgearhart

Thanks for the advice in this thread. Good ideas. BTW, excellent point re: Cavendish and Evans. I should have said strong "all arounder" (...for a 4 at least) rather than highlight the sprint power. FTP: 3.9 w/kg, 5min: 5.1 w/kg, 1min: 8.05 w/kg, 5 sec: 17.2 w/kg). Not great, but good for Cat 4 -- hoping for upgrade end of year, last year was first year and only got in half season in Cat 5.

brianappleby

Attacks don't stay away in crits in the 4's. I'm sure the wide world of the internet has notable exceptions, but I've never seen it happen. I personally think it's because there aren't enough strong people that know how to work together. And back in the pack, everyone goes so slow that they're rested and ready to chase once an attack does go.

Road Races though.... every time.

dmotoguy

I've never seen a break work in a cat4/5 road race that wasn't a super strong person soloing because he was on a totally different level than everyone else...

at least around here, the pack kills every break if the rider(s) look to have any chance of getting away. its annoying.

Apus^2

I've won a cat 4 crit by attacking with two laps to go, came in third in another one (it had a large hill). I remember several others happening that way when I was a 4 (I don't see too many more 4 races anymore). Usually it happens on a challenging course. In Atlanta area they are the old Sandy Springs course (big hill at start finish), Grant Park (big hill at the start finish, rest of the course downhill), Gwinnett Crit (nice incline at the start/finish that slowed the group down), Cycle for Parkinsons (180 turn with a tight course on the backside as well as a quick downhill before the turn to the uphill finish), Road Atlanta Circuit race (enough said), Rome Crit.

tonyzackery

This has been the prevaling scenario I've witnessed as well. However, what's annoying about it? Myself, being a sprinter, I love it! Oops, I guess that means you're not a type II guy...oh well...

zzzwillzzz

+1
to get away you need more attacks. one attack won't do it. it's when there have been 6 or 7 previous attacks in repetition that the field gets tired and will finally decide not to chase.

umd

Yeah... I had a chance to do some of that for a teammate last year. He got off the front and me and another teammate were setting tempo on the front. This one guy would keep coming up and pull through and then after like 10 seconds signal like we were supposed to rotate. We weren't actively blocking... there was plenty of room to go around us and there were several times like that where he or someone else would go up in front of us and try to push the pace a bit but would cook themselves and then there were were ready to go just not quite fast enough to chace.

Edit: He went from the gun and lasted about 3/4 lap (on an 11 mile lap course).

tanhalt

Hehehe...yeah, I'm not sure what I was thinking...I guess I decided since I wasn't in shape, I'd go out and have some "fun" that day

I wish I had THIS setup that day though

https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...&postcount=853

edit: Oh yeah...on the original subject...my "break" consisted of just basically rolling off the front.

umd

Yeah Mark and I were wondering what you were doing. You were pretty safe until someone else tried to get off the front when we turned onto Palmer. Someone yelled "hey, we can't let two guys get away", they chased him down and the momentum carried to the hill.

Coyote2

I've seen it. I've been in that successful break, actually:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...893&highlight=

Rocket Richard

I've ridden away from packs and seen plenty of others do it like this. The secret is not to make such a huge production when trying to establish a gap. Stay in the saddle while pushing hard up front while sneaking away. Others will just look on and say "o well he's not really trying - we'll catch him." My team tried this exact strategy quite a few times last year and paid off about a quarter of the time by either getting others to bridge or just going solo! When you get out of the saddle and scream out loud - then yes, you will cause panic and reaction.,,,,just try staying in the saddle and let me know how it turns out. I'm not saying they won't reel you in, but you should definitely be able to get "out of sight" a few times and hopefully hold on to a lead depending on much suffering you are prepared to withstand!

PBR

Apus^2

^^I've had that happen to me before, usually by accident when I didn't want to be off the front. I'll have to try that this year when I want to be off the front.

waterrockets 

The one thing you can count on in the 4s: they'll chase everything down. The trick is that not everyone will chase, so the guys who do can be worn down.

You and three teammates (who are all in the hunt for points) do rotating attacks. Get a gap going, the other three sit in the top 5 or 10, and relax. Let a couple guys go to bridge up. Try to create gaps in chase efforts. When the pack is finally reeling in the teammate, one of you attacks, about 10 meters before the catch. Just fly right past the break, and get into a rhythm.

Repeat this enough, and the 4s who do the chasing will tire, and a break will stick. The key is to take each attack seriously. When you're off the front, stay focused, and get ready to TT or TTT until the end of the race. That may be 90 or 120 minutes. Get the gap established, then stay smooth. You don't have to go faster than the pack, you just need to hold your gap.

They teammates back in the pack need to race their bikes. Cover attacks, screw up chases, all the stuff you wish you could do but never get the chance in the 4s.