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  1. #1
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Advice Please...What Bike For This TT Profile?

    Hi,
    Looking for some advice from the TT pro's. This is the profile for the TT of the Southern Nevada Stage Race.


    My instinct tells me that a TT bike still takes the advantage on this course, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

    The equipment choices available are a Cervelo P2C or a Felt F1 (around 15 lbs). Also have the choice of full disc rear, tri-spoke front, Easton 56mm EC90s, or Reynolds 46mm DV's. What do you think, TT bike with the full aero set-up, or go lightweight, or something in between. If there's no real advantage to the TT bike, I'd rather not haul around the extra bike. Thanks...

  2. #2
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    What is the weight difference between the two setups (lightweight road bike vs full aero TT)? Also, what kind of wattage do you expect to put out (and your weight?)? Finally, what is the total ascent? Looks like about 500-600 feet over 3 miles?

    My initial thought is that with an average grade of less than 4% for the first two miles, a TT bike is a good choice. If the total climbing is in the range of 600 feet, that is roughly 4% in the first three miles which is usually where the breaking point lies for amateurs. However, the 3/4 mile flat descent should push you toward TT bike. Give the stats and there might be a change, but I would guess TT is the way to go.

  3. #3
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    Maybe a compromise of TT bike with the EC90's. Aero would trump weight on most of that course, but it is still uphill, so I'd make the best compromise of aero vs weight.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

  4. #4
    umd
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    Are you going for sure or just considering it? I have not decided...

  5. #5
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    What power are you targeting for each of the sections of the TT? How much do you weigh? Do you think you'll be climbing on the bar flats, on the hoods, in the drops? Would you consider putting mini-clipons on your road bike?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  6. #6
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Dr- I weigh 168 lbs, I expect to put out between 315-330 watts for ~15 minutes. The F1 with my lightest wheels (Reynolds DV 46's) is about 14.75 lbs and 15 lbs with the Eastons. I've never weighed the P2C, my guess with the light wheels it's about 17.5 lbs, and with the TT wheels about 19, but that just a guess.

    Cslone- That was one of my initial thoughts. Really the course comes down to ~3 miles of 4% or less and only .7 miles in the 5-8% range, which is where I figure that light outweighs aero.

    Thanks guys

  7. #7
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Are you going for sure or just considering it? I have not decided...
    I'm registered, but that's never meant I'm going for sure I've paid for this race before and not gone.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    TT bike. It's a power course for all but half a mile. Just make sure that you don't hit your knees on the elbow pads when you are climbing out of the saddle and bring a cassette with a 25 tooth cog. Use aero wheels, not climbing wheels; you're not attacking anyone or responding to accelerations on the climb so inertia won't matter too much.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  9. #9
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    What power are you targeting for each of the sections of the TT? How much do you weigh? Do you think you'll be climbing on the bar flats, on the hoods, in the drops? Would you consider putting mini-clipons on your road bike?
    This is somewhat hypothetical, yet reasonable:
    First 2.25 miles at 0-4% AP~315
    .75 miles of climbing at 5-8% AP~360 (standing on the hoods, and seated)
    Final .75 miles of flat and downhill AP~320 (In the drops or aero bars)

    The thought of using straps-ons on the road bike occurred, but if that's the case, I'd probably run lighter wheels on the TT bike.

  10. #10
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    TT bike. It's a power course for all but half a mile. Just make sure that you don't hit your knees on the elbow pads when you are climbing out of the saddle and bring a cassette with a 25 tooth cog. Use aero wheels, not climbing wheels; you're not attacking anyone or responding to accelerations on the climb so inertia won't matter too much.
    As in disc and tri-spoke or 56mm deep rims?

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    EC90's for sure, with the TT bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerOne View Post
    Get the Trek, either one. You'll piss off BF and you'll be happy.

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  12. #12
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Roadie View Post
    As in disc and tri-spoke or 56mm deep rims?
    I'd probably go with 56mm rims over the disk and tri-spoke, but that said, I doubt you'll be hurt much by the disk/tri-spoke combo, and they might help tremendously on the way back (I'm assuming that this is out and back).

    But a solid half the course is uphill, so I'd probably go with the lighter 56mm rims over the heavier disk/tri-spoke combo. A 56mm rim is still pretty aero.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  13. #13
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    I'd probably go with 56mm rims over the disk and tri-spoke, but that said, I doubt you'll be hurt much by the disk/tri-spoke combo, and they might help tremendously on the way back (I'm assuming that this is out and back).

    But a solid half the course is uphill, so I'd probably go with the lighter 56mm rims over the heavier disk/tri-spoke combo.
    It's point to point, so there's not much downhill. I still have to ride back, but it's not part of the course. Like most of you guys, I'm leaning towards to TT bike with the 56mm Eastons.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Roadie View Post
    It's point to point, so there's not much downhill. I still have to ride back, but it's not part of the course. Like most of you guys, I'm leaning towards to TT bike with the 56mm Eastons.
    Oh... In that case, yea, the 56mm Eastons for sure.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  15. #15
    Glimmers of form esammuli's Avatar
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    Funny you should post this. I was just out doing intervals on my TT bike about 45 minutes ago and wondering what to do with this course.

  16. #16
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
    Funny you should post this. I was just out doing intervals on my TT bike about 45 minutes ago and wondering what to do with this course.
    Yeah, my initial thought was that the TT bike probably had a slight advantage, but I was second guessing myself. I think the general consensus to use the TT bike with deep rims makes sense. I think I'll practice some short climbs in that 7% range, just to get used to the feel of it and not hitting my knees on the pads, which can be tricky at almost 6'3".

  17. #17
    Tiocfáidh ár Lá jfmckenna's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd bother bringing my TT out of the basement for that one. How much time would you really save in 2.5 miles?

  18. #18
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Basically 2kg difference. Aero all the way, even if you have a bad TT position. The exception is if you fear shifting with bar end shifters on a hill, simply can't climb on a TT bike, or are going to have a day where you ware putting out 40 watts less than expected.

  19. #19
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    A second is a second.
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  20. #20
    Killing Rabbits
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    Do you experience much power loss in the TT position?

    Are you diligent about staying in the TT position?

  21. #21
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    Do you experience much power loss in the TT position?

    Are you diligent about staying in the TT position?
    Doing 2 x 20's I see about a 10-15w drop off in the TT position (290 vs 300). I haven't been on the TT bike that much this season, so not too sure how it looks right now. In early December I was about 10w shy on the TT position vs. road bike.

    Yes, on being diligent in the TT position, especially for something shorter like this. The obvious exception being the 6-8% part of this course.

  22. #22
    umd
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    Pat, I wouldn't stress over it too much... you know we don't get points for GC in cat 4 right?

  23. #23
    Tiocfáidh ár Lá jfmckenna's Avatar
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    If it's a cat 4 stage race, though you don't get points you get a lot of consideration

  24. #24
    Out of Commission OC Roadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Pat, I wouldn't stress over it too much... you know we don't get points for GC in cat 4 right?
    I won't overly stress about it, mostly curious what the TT experts thought. The course looks like it suits me pretty well and I'd like to go for GC, just to have some nice results before becoming permanent pack fill in the 3's. I'm planning on this and Orosi being my last races as a 4. Why have all this crap if I can't obsess over what to use ??

  25. #25
    Senior Member tanhalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Roadie View Post
    Hi,
    Looking for some advice from the TT pro's. This is the profile for the TT of the Southern Nevada Stage Race.


    My instinct tells me that a TT bike still takes the advantage on this course, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

    The equipment choices available are a Cervelo P2C or a Felt F1 (around 15 lbs). Also have the choice of full disc rear, tri-spoke front, Easton 56mm EC90s, or Reynolds 46mm DV's. What do you think, TT bike with the full aero set-up, or go lightweight, or something in between. If there's no real advantage to the TT bike, I'd rather not haul around the extra bike. Thanks...
    To be honest...to answer that question you need to know (along with what's been asked before):
    a.) What's the difference in CdA between your TT aero position and your "basebar" position on the TT bike.
    b.) How does the "basebar" position CdA on the TT bike compare to your "hoods" position on your road bike.
    c.) At what %grade will you find yourself coming out of the aero position?

    One thing to watch out for in looking at the course profile is that you're looking at it with distance as the "x-axis". It's more helpful IMO if you can somehow estimate what the profile would look like if time was the x-axis...that way you'll see in which sections you'll spend more time (and where each option has pluses and minuses). My gut feel is that you'll be spending a lot more time "climbing" and out of the full aero position than in. In that case, go with the lightest, most aero combo you can put together.

    Without looking into it further, if it where me, I'd probably go with your road bike (especially since you don't want to drag the TT bike along), EC 90s, clip-ons, skinsuit, booties, aero helmet...and the wheel choice might be different depending on what tires (and type - tubular? clincher?) you have on each set...

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