5-4 Upgrade question
02-11-09, 04:47 PM
#27
Making a kilometer blurry
In socal, where the OP is from, there is actually a pretty big jump from the 5s to the 4s. The fastest 5s are about the same as the fastest 4s but in a 5s race there will be only a few of them in a field of 50. In a 4s race there can be 50 strong guys in a field of 70-120. A lot of people in the 5s are like fauxto nick, just starting racing (hey, following our advice to just get out there!) are maybe in a little over their heads. Watching a 5s race is watching a stream of people just constantly being spit out the back. Not saying that doesn't happen in a 4s race but it will usually shell a few people immediately and then be relatively stable for a while unless there is a big climb. I guess that was a lot of rambling but my point is that there is a lot more competition in the 4s so you can be one of the few strong guys in a 5s race and be one of the many strong guys in the 4s race.
Then of course there was my teammate who won his last 5s road race then placed in the top 5 in 3 crits (cat 4 and two masters races) the next day...
Then of course there was my teammate who won his last 5s road race then placed in the top 5 in 3 crits (cat 4 and two masters races) the next day...
02-11-09, 04:54 PM
#28
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I'd be interested to know how people who have won Cat 5 races in CA have done in the 4s. I'm not applying this logic to any of the guys who get dropped in a Cat 5 race. I'm talking about a Cat 5 winner. I think that anyone who can win a Cat 5 race can be a player in the 4s.
02-11-09, 05:09 PM
#29
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I'd be interested to know how people who have won Cat 5 races in CA have done in the 4s. I'm not applying this logic to any of the guys who get dropped in a Cat 5 race. I'm talking about a Cat 5 winner. I think that anyone who can win a Cat 5 race can be a player in the 4s.
There have been some cases where 4 winners were players in the 3s right away, but it's infrequent.
02-11-09, 07:33 PM
#30
Making a kilometer blurry
My point about the guys getting dropped was just to highlt how many there are in a 5s race, that the strong guys are really only racing a handful of other strong guys but in the 4s there are a lot of them. There is enough competition that even strong 4s are stuck there for a while. There are certainly guys who blow through the cats, 5s, 4s, 3s, whatever... but certainly there are guys that can win a 5s race and not necessarily be a "player" in a 4s race.
I'd be interested to hear of anyone on BF who won a Cat 5 race then was hammered in the 4s.
In Colorado, I was on the podium in Cat 5 and 4 races in the same day (back when we could choose to race both because the 5s fields might be small). So I was getting Cat 3 upgrade points my 2nd weekend of racing. The 4s races didn't really seem any harder to me than the 5s because of the "outsiders" (pro triathletes and expert MTB racers who didn't have USCF licenses).
02-11-09, 07:52 PM
#31
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I'd chalk that up mostly to experience. Field depth has a lot to do with it too, as bigger fields mean that it takes longer for people to upgrade (the top 6 are a smaller % of the field).
I'd be interested to hear of anyone on BF who won a Cat 5 race then was hammered in the 4s.
In Colorado, I was on the podium in Cat 5 and 4 races in the same day (back when we could choose to race both because the 5s fields might be small). So I was getting Cat 3 upgrade points my 2nd weekend of racing. The 4s races didn't really seem any harder to me than the 5s because of the "outsiders" (pro triathletes and expert MTB racers who didn't have USCF licenses).
I'd be interested to hear of anyone on BF who won a Cat 5 race then was hammered in the 4s.
In Colorado, I was on the podium in Cat 5 and 4 races in the same day (back when we could choose to race both because the 5s fields might be small). So I was getting Cat 3 upgrade points my 2nd weekend of racing. The 4s races didn't really seem any harder to me than the 5s because of the "outsiders" (pro triathletes and expert MTB racers who didn't have USCF licenses).
02-11-09, 08:04 PM
#32
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umd speaks the truth. That said, it's always fun to watch those big sharks come stomping through our playground (after we secretly wish they would disappear) and be amazed by their genetic freakishness.
02-11-09, 08:24 PM
#34
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out of curiosity, if i had my 10 cat5 races in 2005, am i still eligible to upgrade (after a few tune-ups) to 4 now, or do i have to start over? i didn't kill it in fives, but was never spit out the back either.
02-11-09, 08:30 PM
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Don't believe they expire but it is likely up to the discretion of your regional representative.
02-11-09, 08:31 PM
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02-11-09, 09:02 PM
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Other good reasons to be in the 3s... you don't have to prereg because the races don't usually fill up, and you can often get more than one crit in without doing masters because many races do 3 and P/1/2/3... Also for me I have a fair number of teammates in the 3s but not as many in the 4s.
02-11-09, 09:52 PM
#38
Making a kilometer blurry
Other good reasons to be in the 3s... you don't have to prereg because the races don't usually fill up, and you can often get more than one crit in without doing masters because many races do 3 and P/1/2/3... Also for me I have a fair number of teammates in the 3s but not as many in the 4s.
Man, I wish I could just race masters like 38-year-olds in other states. For me, multiple crits in one day is a bit of a joke. My 1m attack takes so much out of me that any remaining races are seriously compromised. On the road, I'm not excited at all about racing long miles in the 3s (~60 for most races). We'll see how it goes...
Then there's the upgrade to 2s. I think I can compete in the crits, but racing 80 miles... ugh.
There are a couple long rides that I enjoy, but I mostly just don't enjoy cycling enough to spend that kind of time in the saddle. I much more enjoy the quick, sharp pain of a shorter race.
Last edited by waterrockets; 02-11-09 at 09:55 PM.
02-11-09, 10:02 PM
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I'm pretty close. I can tell from the first several races this season I have good strength I've just made some tactical errors. I should be able to upgrade on experience after this weekend but I'm going to stick it out and race through the end of March as a 4 and I plan to upgrade on my 30th birthday after a big socal stage race.
