Heart rate vs power meter
03-09-09, 06:16 PM
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I think their thinking was that a rider could go into a lab and have their peak power, VO2Max, HR etc characterized and from there a training plan derived whereby the rider used HR during intervals. Once a particular HR is established for an 80% power interval, for example, it is unlikely to change for a particular rider during a racing season so it wouldn't really be necessary to continually retest power outside of a controlled lab.
I don't see why this technique wouldn't work well for a racing team with a limited budget.
I don't see why this technique wouldn't work well for a racing team with a limited budget.
You're halfway to a power meter already.
03-09-09, 07:46 PM
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I think the big story here is that, for the first time ever, Bicycling didn't wholeheartedly recommend the most expensive possible option.
03-09-09, 08:00 PM
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I might be able to get a hold of this journal at my university's Health Sciences Library. I checked the online access, they only have up to February 2009, and this article is in the March issue. Obviously I can't just scan it and post it since that's a big snafu, but if I do get a hold of it I'd be able to cite portions within fair use and clarify about it.
03-09-09, 08:10 PM
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I wish he had the time to retest us, because I think my zones have changed a lot since then (I was untrained then, essentially, had only been riding about a month, just base). My LT when we did that test he put at 164. I routinely average 175 in races for up to 45 minutes.
03-10-09, 10:42 AM
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I failed because I did not spend $1200 minimum on a power meter that may or may not help me ride my bike faster? I can live with that. I have been riding/racing for almost 20 years now and have seen every kind of wonder thing that will make you faster, I think Eddy had it right when asked how he trains. I ride my bike a lot.
(Note: Competitive Cyclist will sell you the hub by itself if you don't want it built with an RR 1.1 rim-- which is what I did. I used an RR 1.2 to match my front wheel.
)
Last edited by SushiJoe; 03-10-09 at 10:46 AM.
03-10-09, 10:48 AM
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It's nice to have both but if I had to choose I would save up for a PM.
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I'd be doing myself, and you guys, a disservice if I didn't ride the hell out of this thing!
I'd be doing myself, and you guys, a disservice if I didn't ride the hell out of this thing!
03-10-09, 10:52 AM
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probably $100 - $175/test. problem is these tests are a snapshot of that moment in time. if the athlete isnt testing at minimum 4x/year (1 pre-training season, 1 at the end of whatever "base" is, 1 at or near peak, and 1 at end of training season/pre-transition), these tests are outdated and you'll be correlating HR w/power using bad mapping.
so, if the comparison is between a watt-o-meter, which for arguments sake can be had for <$750 and has no need for physiological testing aside from that one does on the road, and HR + proper physiological testing to map HR to power levels, it'll take about 2 years for costs to breakeven.
as a veteran of both sides of this comparison, I would advocate the wattmeter 100x/100, and honestly never plan to do another physiological test.
so, if the comparison is between a watt-o-meter, which for arguments sake can be had for <$750 and has no need for physiological testing aside from that one does on the road, and HR + proper physiological testing to map HR to power levels, it'll take about 2 years for costs to breakeven.
as a veteran of both sides of this comparison, I would advocate the wattmeter 100x/100, and honestly never plan to do another physiological test.
03-10-09, 12:04 PM
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03-21-09, 02:26 PM
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A lot of gyms have stationary bikes and/or stepmills equipped with HRMs and power meters. These can be used for measuring power at threshold (with a little practice) and can also be used for interval training. I'm in there twice a week doing over/under intervals.
Just throwing it out there.
BL
Just throwing it out there.
BL
03-21-09, 11:17 PM
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As long as you always get the same bike and don't try to use the numbers for anything else.
03-22-09, 12:38 AM
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When you guys do INTs (using watts) do you have higher or lower avg HR as you go up in intensity? I noticed something strange but I can't confirm til I upload my last INT session at work Monday. Let me explain.
Last week I did Level 6 INTs - 5x2 min w/4min rest between. My HR numbers were:
avg max
161 169
162 170
162 171
163 173
161 175
Today I did Level 5 INTs - 4x5 min w/5 min rest between. Even though I was doing about 40-50 watts less than the L6 intervals my heart rates were:
avg max
167 172
168 176
172 177
173 181
My max HR = 182. It doesn't seem normal to hit higher HRs during "lower intensity" intervals. I do seem to have a sprinter's power profile. Decent max wattage but the FTP of a girl. I haven't done 20 min test in a while but I'm 90% sure if I do my avg HR will still be around 163-165 and 40 watts below what L5 was at. I've always been this way and it's why I never got into racing. As I ease up to recover my watts (therefore speed) goes way down but my HR doesn't...thus in group rides either I redline the entire ride or I get dropped.
How does your HR change as you go from L4 to L5 to L6? I'm using Coggan's power training levels.
Last week I did Level 6 INTs - 5x2 min w/4min rest between. My HR numbers were:
avg max
161 169
162 170
162 171
163 173
161 175
Today I did Level 5 INTs - 4x5 min w/5 min rest between. Even though I was doing about 40-50 watts less than the L6 intervals my heart rates were:
avg max
167 172
168 176
172 177
173 181
My max HR = 182. It doesn't seem normal to hit higher HRs during "lower intensity" intervals. I do seem to have a sprinter's power profile. Decent max wattage but the FTP of a girl. I haven't done 20 min test in a while but I'm 90% sure if I do my avg HR will still be around 163-165 and 40 watts below what L5 was at. I've always been this way and it's why I never got into racing. As I ease up to recover my watts (therefore speed) goes way down but my HR doesn't...thus in group rides either I redline the entire ride or I get dropped.
How does your HR change as you go from L4 to L5 to L6? I'm using Coggan's power training levels.
Last edited by Dubbayoo; 03-22-09 at 01:34 AM.
03-22-09, 02:33 PM
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When you guys do INTs (using watts) do you have higher or lower avg HR as you go up in intensity? I noticed something strange but I can't confirm til I upload my last INT session at work Monday. Let me explain.
Last week I did Level 6 INTs - 5x2 min w/4min rest between. My HR numbers were:
avg max
161 169
162 170
162 171
163 173
161 175
Today I did Level 5 INTs - 4x5 min w/5 min rest between. Even though I was doing about 40-50 watts less than the L6 intervals my heart rates were:
avg max
167 172
168 176
172 177
173 181
My max HR = 182. It doesn't seem normal to hit higher HRs during "lower intensity" intervals. I do seem to have a sprinter's power profile. Decent max wattage but the FTP of a girl. I haven't done 20 min test in a while but I'm 90% sure if I do my avg HR will still be around 163-165 and 40 watts below what L5 was at. I've always been this way and it's why I never got into racing. As I ease up to recover my watts (therefore speed) goes way down but my HR doesn't...thus in group rides either I redline the entire ride or I get dropped.
How does your HR change as you go from L4 to L5 to L6? I'm using Coggan's power training levels.
Last week I did Level 6 INTs - 5x2 min w/4min rest between. My HR numbers were:
avg max
161 169
162 170
162 171
163 173
161 175
Today I did Level 5 INTs - 4x5 min w/5 min rest between. Even though I was doing about 40-50 watts less than the L6 intervals my heart rates were:
avg max
167 172
168 176
172 177
173 181
My max HR = 182. It doesn't seem normal to hit higher HRs during "lower intensity" intervals. I do seem to have a sprinter's power profile. Decent max wattage but the FTP of a girl. I haven't done 20 min test in a while but I'm 90% sure if I do my avg HR will still be around 163-165 and 40 watts below what L5 was at. I've always been this way and it's why I never got into racing. As I ease up to recover my watts (therefore speed) goes way down but my HR doesn't...thus in group rides either I redline the entire ride or I get dropped.
How does your HR change as you go from L4 to L5 to L6? I'm using Coggan's power training levels.
It's not uncommon for me to hit "L5" HR numbers when doing my 3rd 20 minute interval in a series towards the end of the workout even though the power wattage is consistent.
03-22-09, 03:42 PM
#67
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Yes cardiac drift / slow component of VO2max comes into play, but there’s more.
Remember the slow rise time of HR with respect to power output? The half-life of your HR response to the interval is about 30s. So after 2min at level 6 your HR will have only increased to about 94% of the HR that would be associated with that power output. This is also why I like 4min VO2max intervals.
Another way to look at it is by the total amount of work done. Sure your 2min interval is at a higher power but it’s 3minutes shorter. For 120s at 400W is 48KJ, 5min at 340W is 102KJ. Your anaerobic system can only do so much, so as the total work increases more of the load is passed onto your aerobic system –hence high heart rates and why they are called VO2max intervals. You can’t hit Vo2max with intervals shorter than 2-3 min because at such high power outputs your muscles fail before they can do enough total work.
Remember the slow rise time of HR with respect to power output? The half-life of your HR response to the interval is about 30s. So after 2min at level 6 your HR will have only increased to about 94% of the HR that would be associated with that power output. This is also why I like 4min VO2max intervals.
Code:
Time(s) HR change 0 0.00 30 0.50 60 0.75 90 0.88 120 0.94 150 0.97 180 0.98 210 0.99 240 1.00
03-23-09, 09:30 AM
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You are both spot on. I looked at the HR graphs and in every case 2 minutes into the 5-minute Level 5 interval my HR was at the same level as the end of the 2-min L6 intervals.
kensuf, three 20-min intervals? Ouch. I dread two.
kensuf, three 20-min intervals? Ouch. I dread two.
03-23-09, 04:39 PM
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another bicycling article about why you should use a power meter
https://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...8550-1,00.html
https://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...8550-1,00.html
