Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-09, 12:24 AM   #1
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
Thread Starter
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
32h Powertap vs 404 for a 3-mile flat TT

I have a short prologue TT coming up and I'm debating between my powertap and a 404 rear wheel. I'll run a 404 front wheel regardless. If I use the powertap I can stick to my 10-minute threshold power until the last 2K's or so. Which would you use and why?
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 12:27 AM   #2
Frunkin
nom nom nom
 
Frunkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: Lemond Tete de Course, Slingshot DDX, Fuji Track Pro, Surly Steamroller
Posts: 2,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just did a 5 mile TTT with my powertap and I looked at it maybe 2 times. I think you can pace yourself pretty well off RPE and the aero benefit may be the difference in what will be some very close finish times.

But i'm no TT expert so take it fwiw.
Frunkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 12:36 AM   #3
uspspro
Tandem Mountain Climber
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Mateo, CA
Bikes: Calfee Tandem, Custom CAAD9 BB30, 90 Santana Arriva Tandem, 02 CAAD4 errand bike, 87 Cannondale "Black Lightning"
Posts: 4,101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Aero wheel and use HRM (not as good as power, but it works).

or if it's not a UCI event...

Disc wheel cover on your PT wheel.
uspspro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 04:54 AM   #4
borg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Denver
Bikes: Cervelo R3
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
PowerTap. Until you are paid to ride, improvements are more important than individual race results. The power file will give you great insight as to where you can improve. I just can't live without the data.

I am assuming you are not paid to ride or you would be asking between the Zipp 1080 PowerTap or the Zipp 808 PowerTap to use for your rear
borg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 05:31 AM   #5
ldesfor1@ithaca
Senior Member
 
ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Newton Ctr. MA
Bikes: 2 cdale Caad7. Scatantte CX/winter bike. SS commuter.
Posts: 2,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Also a +1 for a wheelbuilder.com disc cover for the rear. I have one for my open pro powertap wheel and it is very, very fast compared to the box section alone. If you have time and $80 this is a great option. Otherwise i'd go with the PT as the data itself may be worth the (?) seconds saved with the aero wheel, not to mention the pacing should be much better!

-L
ldesfor1@ithaca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 06:28 AM   #6
PhillyRoadie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: 2009 Giant TCR Advanced 1, 2008 Jamis Quest
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did a 2.7 mile TT last weekend, and I really wish I'd had a powertap. I was surprised at how hard it was to pace something so short, in all the nerves and adrenaline of race day.

A HRM probably isn't going to be that helpful (when the whole event's going to be over in six minutes, is it really helpful to know how many bpm over your LTHR you are?) Even if you actually adjusted your pace based on that, you'd probably be done before your HR rose/fell accordingly.
PhillyRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 07:17 AM   #7
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah, I think that if you can use it to prevent you from screwing up your pace, the PT will save you much more time than it will cost you in such a short event. Then you have the benefit of the data for later.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 07:43 AM   #8
cslone
Quarq shill
 
cslone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pacing is for wussy.

My vote would be a PT with disc cover if possible though.
cslone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 07:50 AM   #9
nitropowered
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Posts: 5,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Data, Data, Data!
nitropowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 07:59 AM   #10
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
PT for the data AFTER the race. Theres no way I would pace myself by watts for something that short.
wfrogge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 08:54 AM   #11
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,150
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quarq, and you don't have these issues.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 09:38 AM   #12
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,559
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
404 or get a cover. The time gaps on a short TT like that are going to be a few seconds, which you'll be tossing away with the PT wheel. Losing places or a win by a second or two is not pleasant.

Go pre ride it (or something similar) with the PT at race speed to get a feel for where you start to crumble. Other than reigning in a little during the first minute, the last one of these I did I didn't pace, I slobbered and was just going as hard as possible.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 09:44 AM   #13
Nate552
Senior Member
 
Nate552's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Bikes: Orbea Orca Trek 5500 Trek Equinox
Posts: 2,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you have a chance to do well? If so, the 404, in a distance that short every second will count. Or a cover like everyone else says, though I have no personal experience with them.
Nate552 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:07 AM   #14
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
Thread Starter
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Quarq, and you don't have these issues.
Do you do time trials on your road bike?
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:10 AM   #15
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,150
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
Do you do time trials on your road bike?
No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:28 AM   #16
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
404 or get a cover. The time gaps on a short TT like that are going to be a few seconds, which you'll be tossing away with the PT wheel. Losing places or a win by a second or two is not pleasant.

Go pre ride it (or something similar) with the PT at race speed to get a feel for where you start to crumble. Other than reigning in a little during the first minute, the last one of these I did I didn't pace, I slobbered and was just going as hard as possible.
Yeah, if you can dial in your pacing before hand, even on a different but somewhat similar course, then you won't need the few glances at your power meter during the event. Going into it blind, I think I'd do myself a favor with the PT though, because I'm likely to stay at 500W too long in the beginning, then fall apart and come in at 320W. Practice runs will quell this though.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:51 AM   #17
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
Posts: 9,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Nothing compares to race-day adrenaline. If you can pace it, great.

Basically you're gambling a 'guaranteed' 5-10 seconds of advantage with the better wheel, vs. 30-60 seconds from going out too hard and blowing up.
__________________
Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:59 AM   #18
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,559
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
2.5 with the SRM.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 10:59 AM   #19
cslone
Quarq shill
 
cslone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
Do you do time trials on your road bike?
It's only a 1 bolt swap if you have a compatible bb in your 2nd bike. 2 minutes 29 seconds max.
cslone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:04 AM   #20
KendallF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did the Albany 3.1k TT Saturday with my 101mm Planet X PT wheel. I think I looked at the numbers once and said, "Oh sh*t, I'm at 450 watts, can't keep that up". The rest of the time I was busy yelling at people to get off the course, turning, or sprinting back up to speed. I haven't looked at the data yet, but I am pretty sure I went out too hard. Will I use that data to moderate the next one?

Maybe.

Edit: I forgot, I had to dodge the ambulance too.
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:30 AM   #21
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,559
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
2.5 with the SRM.

I couldn't pace a TT of this distance, and I'd ask how many people suggesting pacing off a power meter for a prologue have successfully raced one. The one I did last year I won by 3 seconds at 397w average, that's a pretty jumpy number if you're trying to hold it steady.

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the file. Interestingly, I looked at Gustov Larson's file from the TOC prologue, it's surprisingly similar to my effort, albeit at a much higher wattage. Steady trend downward then up in the last minute.

Given that you should be dancing on the fine line of complete meltdown, I think paying attention to internal markers (breathing, lactic buildup) is much more helpful than trying to sit on a number.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:34 AM   #22
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
Thread Starter
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I'm going to get a disc cover for this event. I know it probably isn't worth it just for one event, but I want to get the data from this to better evaluate my 10-min threshold (least favorite test.) Also, I have a few longer TT's coming up where the pacing of the powertap combined with the aero-ness of the disc cover should come in handy.
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:38 AM   #23
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,150
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
$59 http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?p...jor=1&minor=24
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:44 AM   #24
cslone
Quarq shill
 
cslone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
2.5 with the SRM.

I couldn't pace a TT of this distance, and I'd ask how many people suggesting pacing off a power meter for a prologue have successfully raced one. The one I did last year I won by 3 seconds at 397w average, that's a pretty jumpy number if you're trying to hold it steady.

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the file. Interestingly, I looked at Gustov Larson's file from the TOC prologue, it's surprisingly similar to my effort, albeit at a much higher wattage. Steady trend downward then up in the last minute.

Given that you should be dancing on the fine line of complete meltdown, I think paying attention to internal markers (breathing, lactic buildup) is much more helpful than trying to sit on a number.
I definitely think that something this short is going to be balls to the wall, more based on RPE than anything. But if he can get a cover and use the PM to look at afterwards to see how pacing strategy went, it's always nice to have those numbers.
cslone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-09, 11:52 AM   #25
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
Thread Starter
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I'm getting the one from wheelbuilder.com because they can trim it to fit my wheel.
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 PM.