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  1. #1
    W.W.DZ.D? cedricbosch's Avatar
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    32h Powertap vs 404 for a 3-mile flat TT

    I have a short prologue TT coming up and I'm debating between my powertap and a 404 rear wheel. I'll run a 404 front wheel regardless. If I use the powertap I can stick to my 10-minute threshold power until the last 2K's or so. Which would you use and why?
    Cat 1 meter- 15%

  2. #2
    nom nom nom Frunkin's Avatar
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    I just did a 5 mile TTT with my powertap and I looked at it maybe 2 times. I think you can pace yourself pretty well off RPE and the aero benefit may be the difference in what will be some very close finish times.

    But i'm no TT expert so take it fwiw.

  3. #3
    Tandem Mountain Climber
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    Aero wheel and use HRM (not as good as power, but it works).

    or if it's not a UCI event...

    Disc wheel cover on your PT wheel.

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    PowerTap. Until you are paid to ride, improvements are more important than individual race results. The power file will give you great insight as to where you can improve. I just can't live without the data.

    I am assuming you are not paid to ride or you would be asking between the Zipp 1080 PowerTap or the Zipp 808 PowerTap to use for your rear

  5. #5
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    Also a +1 for a wheelbuilder.com disc cover for the rear. I have one for my open pro powertap wheel and it is very, very fast compared to the box section alone. If you have time and $80 this is a great option. Otherwise i'd go with the PT as the data itself may be worth the (?) seconds saved with the aero wheel, not to mention the pacing should be much better!

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  6. #6
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    I did a 2.7 mile TT last weekend, and I really wish I'd had a powertap. I was surprised at how hard it was to pace something so short, in all the nerves and adrenaline of race day.

    A HRM probably isn't going to be that helpful (when the whole event's going to be over in six minutes, is it really helpful to know how many bpm over your LTHR you are?) Even if you actually adjusted your pace based on that, you'd probably be done before your HR rose/fell accordingly.

  7. #7
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think that if you can use it to prevent you from screwing up your pace, the PT will save you much more time than it will cost you in such a short event. Then you have the benefit of the data for later.

  8. #8
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    Pacing is for wussy.

    My vote would be a PT with disc cover if possible though.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

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    Data, Data, Data!

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    PT for the data AFTER the race. Theres no way I would pace myself by watts for something that short.
    Please remember that all statements unless quoted, are strictly my opinion of what happened. That there are as many opinions as there are spectators attending. I just choose to publish mine on this forum. And would NEVER intend to purposely hurt or discredit any other cyclist.... With that said... HTFU!

  11. #11
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quarq, and you don't have these issues.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    404 or get a cover. The time gaps on a short TT like that are going to be a few seconds, which you'll be tossing away with the PT wheel. Losing places or a win by a second or two is not pleasant.

    Go pre ride it (or something similar) with the PT at race speed to get a feel for where you start to crumble. Other than reigning in a little during the first minute, the last one of these I did I didn't pace, I slobbered and was just going as hard as possible.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nate552's Avatar
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    Do you have a chance to do well? If so, the 404, in a distance that short every second will count. Or a cover like everyone else says, though I have no personal experience with them.

  14. #14
    W.W.DZ.D? cedricbosch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Quarq, and you don't have these issues.
    Do you do time trials on your road bike?
    Cat 1 meter- 15%

  15. #15
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    Do you do time trials on your road bike?
    No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    404 or get a cover. The time gaps on a short TT like that are going to be a few seconds, which you'll be tossing away with the PT wheel. Losing places or a win by a second or two is not pleasant.

    Go pre ride it (or something similar) with the PT at race speed to get a feel for where you start to crumble. Other than reigning in a little during the first minute, the last one of these I did I didn't pace, I slobbered and was just going as hard as possible.
    Yeah, if you can dial in your pacing before hand, even on a different but somewhat similar course, then you won't need the few glances at your power meter during the event. Going into it blind, I think I'd do myself a favor with the PT though, because I'm likely to stay at 500W too long in the beginning, then fall apart and come in at 320W. Practice runs will quell this though.

  17. #17
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Nothing compares to race-day adrenaline. If you can pace it, great.

    Basically you're gambling a 'guaranteed' 5-10 seconds of advantage with the better wheel, vs. 30-60 seconds from going out too hard and blowing up.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  18. #18
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
    2.5 with the SRM.

  19. #19
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    Do you do time trials on your road bike?
    It's only a 1 bolt swap if you have a compatible bb in your 2nd bike. 2 minutes 29 seconds max.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

  20. #20
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    I did the Albany 3.1k TT Saturday with my 101mm Planet X PT wheel. I think I looked at the numbers once and said, "Oh sh*t, I'm at 450 watts, can't keep that up". The rest of the time I was busy yelling at people to get off the course, turning, or sprinting back up to speed. I haven't looked at the data yet, but I am pretty sure I went out too hard. Will I use that data to moderate the next one?

    Maybe.

    Edit: I forgot, I had to dodge the ambulance too.
    Kendall Frederick

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  21. #21
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    No. The TT bike has a compatible BB. So it's a 5 minute operation to move the crank with the Cinco Saturn from the road bike to the TT bike.
    2.5 with the SRM.

    I couldn't pace a TT of this distance, and I'd ask how many people suggesting pacing off a power meter for a prologue have successfully raced one. The one I did last year I won by 3 seconds at 397w average, that's a pretty jumpy number if you're trying to hold it steady.

    I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the file. Interestingly, I looked at Gustov Larson's file from the TOC prologue, it's surprisingly similar to my effort, albeit at a much higher wattage. Steady trend downward then up in the last minute.

    Given that you should be dancing on the fine line of complete meltdown, I think paying attention to internal markers (breathing, lactic buildup) is much more helpful than trying to sit on a number.

  22. #22
    W.W.DZ.D? cedricbosch's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to get a disc cover for this event. I know it probably isn't worth it just for one event, but I want to get the data from this to better evaluate my 10-min threshold (least favorite test.) Also, I have a few longer TT's coming up where the pacing of the powertap combined with the aero-ness of the disc cover should come in handy.
    Cat 1 meter- 15%

  23. #23
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  24. #24
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    2.5 with the SRM.

    I couldn't pace a TT of this distance, and I'd ask how many people suggesting pacing off a power meter for a prologue have successfully raced one. The one I did last year I won by 3 seconds at 397w average, that's a pretty jumpy number if you're trying to hold it steady.

    I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the file. Interestingly, I looked at Gustov Larson's file from the TOC prologue, it's surprisingly similar to my effort, albeit at a much higher wattage. Steady trend downward then up in the last minute.

    Given that you should be dancing on the fine line of complete meltdown, I think paying attention to internal markers (breathing, lactic buildup) is much more helpful than trying to sit on a number.
    I definitely think that something this short is going to be balls to the wall, more based on RPE than anything. But if he can get a cover and use the PM to look at afterwards to see how pacing strategy went, it's always nice to have those numbers.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

  25. #25
    W.W.DZ.D? cedricbosch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    I'm getting the one from wheelbuilder.com because they can trim it to fit my wheel.
    Cat 1 meter- 15%

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