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  1. #1
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    How much speed should I carry into a corner

    To put it simply, I want to learn how to corner at racing speeds. I have read plenty of threads on cornering technique, and have begun trying out the various methods to get comfortable at slower speeds.

    Now, I would like to gradually ramp up the speed to slowly gain some confidence. My main question is how much speed can I expect a cat-5 pack to carry into a corner. I don't want to show up to a race and wipe out a bunch of people in a corner because I wasn't ready for it.

  2. #2
    Primate Metzinger's Avatar
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    You've read the theory.
    Try to find some experienced riders to follow and to show you the right lines.
    Now just follow the same directions as you would for getting to Carnegie Hall.

  3. #3
    Senior Member BigSean's Avatar
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    I think 30 mph is fairly common on a 90deg corner. I wouldnt suspect the entire race to be that fast but the last few laps should be.

  4. #4
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    it has less to do with speed than it does just being comfortable in a group and being able to hold your line.

    do you have any riding buddies you can practice with? try maintaining a paceline around a corner and then try riding side by side.

  5. #5
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    However much speed the guy in front of you is carrying. If you're in the front, as much as you want and can handle.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  6. #6
    Senior Member curiouskid55's Avatar
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    Preferably all of it. But remember it is the job of the follower not to hit the leader.

  7. #7
    Huge Member hamslice's Avatar
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    Just follow the line/speed of the guy in front of you. You'll probably be taking corners at 25-30mph, but it depends on how technical the corner is more than any other factor.

    Also don't use your brakes unless you need to...it just means you have to work harder after the corner, plus it can cause problems for the guy behind you if it's unexpected.
    Last edited by hamslice; 03-16-09 at 03:16 PM.

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    which corner? the off camber one? the 180 deg one? the 90 deg one? the one at the bottom of a hill? the one in the middle of a hill? the one that goes from a 4-lane wide road to a narrow side street?

    understand?

  9. #9
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    which corner? the off camber one? the 180 deg one? the 90 deg one? the one at the bottom of a hill? the one in the middle of a hill? the one that goes from a 4-lane wide road to a narrow side street?
    That one sucks

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    hay bales or no?

  11. #11
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    That one sucks
    There was a crit in Santa Barbara in 1994 or 1995 that went up a street (about a 5-6% grade), right/left into a parking lot, left out of the other parking lot driveway, down the same street to a hard right into a driveway to complete a circle in that parking lot before coming back out the same driveway to turn and head back up the street. That meant the pack was heading down a hill into a sharp right hand turn into half of a driveway, so about 7 or 8 feet wide, with hay bails dividing that half from the other half where the pack came back out. I wasn't surprised when the race didn't show up on the next year's schedule.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  12. #12
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    There was a crit in Santa Barbara in 1994 or 1995 that went up a street (about a 5-6% grade), right/left into a parking lot, left out of the other parking lot driveway, down the same street to a hard right into a driveway to complete a circle in that parking lot before coming back out the same driveway to turn and head back up the street. That meant the pack was heading down a hill into a sharp right hand turn into half of a driveway, so about 7 ot 8 feet wide, with hay bails dividing that half from the other half where the pack came back out. I wasn't surprised when the race didn't show up on the next year's schedule.
    If that was the race on Shoreline, I believe someone died.

  13. #13
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    If that was the race on Shoreline, I believe someone died.
    I believe it was on Loma Alta Dr right off of Shoreline, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone died. I was the first race of the day and was gone before the third. Click here. It went up the street under that bridge, turned into that parking strip before Cliff Dr, out the upper end, back down Loma Alta, then into that triangle shaped parking lot and then back out the same way. I do remember plenty of crashes, although it wasn't a concern for me since only 4 other people had signed up in juniors.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  14. #14
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    I believe it was on Loma Alta Dr right off of Shoreline, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone died. I was the first race of the day and was gone before the third. Click here. It went up the street under that bridge, turned into that parking strip before Cliff Dr, out the upper end, back down Loma Alta, then into that triangle shaped parking lot and then back out the same way. I do remember plenty of crashes, although it wasn't a concern for me since only 4 other people had signed up in juniors.
    It took some digging

    Goleta cyclist Barrett Holmen loved bicycling. In a year's time, Holmen progressed from a Category 5 rider (the US Cycling Federation's entry racing level) to Category 2. As part of achieving this outstanding success, the 24-year old Holmen trained 400-500 miles a week, according to local Olympic cyclist Dave Lettieri. "I don't know of anybody else, except Lance Armstrong, who progressed so rapidly," said Keith Horowitz, Holmen's roommate.

    Horowitz described how Holmen was a team cyclist, supporting fellow racers from the Santa Barbara Bicycle Club instead of pushing himself ahead of everybody. "People were affected by him. He was very well liked and totally dedicated to cycling."

    Holmen died on July 6 after crashing during the 62-mile Santa Barbara Grand Prix race along Shoreline Drive in Santa Barbara. For whatever reason, Holmen lost control of his bike on a downhill section and struck a concrete planter in the street median.

  15. #15
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    ^ Doesn't seem to be the same course as I'm talking about. The one I'm thinking of was on Loma Alta Dr only (it never actually touched Shoreline Dr), it was called the Semana Nautica Criterium, and I'm pretty sure it was '94, maybe '95, but definitely not '96. Still a sad story, though. Sounds like he had potential.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  16. #16
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    I believe it was on Loma Alta Dr right off of Shoreline, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone died. I was the first race of the day and was gone before the third. Click here. It went up the street under that bridge, turned into that parking strip before Cliff Dr, out the upper end, back down Loma Alta, then into that triangle shaped parking lot and then back out the same way. I do remember plenty of crashes, although it wasn't a concern for me since only 4 other people had signed up in juniors.
    I was in that race. The problem wasn't the corners, which were pretty simple. The main problem was that the course-layout on the main straight down Shoreline. At the time it was a 3-lane road with two lanes going uphill that merged into one near the top (driving like a car). The downhill had one lane at the top that split into two lanes going down. There was an island in between with concrete planter boxes.

    For the day of that race, the organizers had the entire road closed. They chose to run the course in the opposite direction you drive. This means that the uphill on Shoreline went from one lane into two and the downhill went from two lanes into one. The finish line was at the bottom of the hill before hitting Loma Alta. Now think about this... finishing sprints in 1/2/pro races are 42-46mph on the flats. Imagine this race going DOWNHILL, which adds 5-8mph easily. AND imagine two lanes of monster sprinters elbow-to-elbow flying down a two-lane hill. Then IMAGINE this two lane road squeezing down into a 1-lane cattle shute as they're going 50mph+ towards the finish.

    Yeah, "lost control" is a nice spin on what happened. Barrett tangled bars/elbows with someone in the final sprint fighting for the win. There was no room when the road went down to one lane and he ended up hitting a concrete planter box. Ripped his aorta and died on the way to hospital. Or course, the organizers had put hay-bales in front of the concrete planter boxes, but they were facing the uphill direction of travel.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 03-17-09 at 06:14 PM.

  17. #17
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    I was in that race. The problem wasn't the corners, which were pretty simple. The main problem was that the course-layout on the main straight down Shoreline. At the time it was a 3-lane road with one lane going uphill that merged into one near the top (driving like a car). The downhill had one lane at the top that split into two lanes going down. There was an island in between with concrete planter boxes.

    For the day of that race, the organizers had the entire road closed. They chose to run the course in the opposite direction you drive. This means that the uphill on Shoreline went from one lane into two and the downhill went from two lanes into one. The finish line was at the bottom of the hill before hitting Loma Alta. Now think about this... finishing sprints in 1/2/pro races are 42-46mph on the flats. Imagine this race going DOWNHILL, which adds 5-8mph easily. AND imagine two lanes of monster sprinters elbow-to-elbow flying down a two-lane hill. Then IMAGINE this two lane road squeezing down into a 1-lane cattle shute as they're going 50mph+ towards the finish.

    Yeah, "lost control" is a nice spin on what happened. Barrett tangled bars/elbows with someone in the final sprint fighting for the win. There was no room when the road went down to one lane and ended up hitting a concrete planter box. Ripped his aorta and died on the way to hospital. Or course, the organizers hat put hay-bales in front of the concrete planter boxes, but they were facing the uphill direction of travel.
    Danno, Urb has already said it was a different race... you gotta read the followup comments

  18. #18
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Sorry, I'm still ticked off about that race. We had a nice memorial for Barrett at the Saints by the Sea church and went down to the beach, his sister threw his ashes in and we all set off candles.

  19. #19
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Here's the course I was looking at. Check it out just to let your jaw drop that anyone would design a course like that.
    http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united...23733653439723
    The elevation chart is counting the drop off on the side of the road. The hill is actually 5-6%.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  20. #20
    meow bostongarden's Avatar
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    Good comments here...another thing to consider doing is, while off the bike and with the right-side pedal at 6pm, tilt the bike on the right side until the pedal almost touches the ground...this gives you an idea of the angle you can tolerate while pedaling, which may also be related to your speed when going through a corner/turn.

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