Jakedatc

Bad day for a few sprinters though.. Farrar hurt shoulder of some type , Garmin took a big hit on that one... O'Grady.. 1 broken and more bruised ribs.. out for the classics.

patentcad

Oh, you think?

Somebody shoot me.

classic1

Ok, how about 'the Poggio isn't that hard and any half decent amateur could race over it on the big ring'. Does that clear things up for you?

wabbit

i actually had cavendish as a favorite....he seemed to be in great form, although i thought also of petacchi. Haussler hadn't occured to me as a high finisher!
sucks about o'grady! MSR seems to be deadly for nasty crashes....

patentcad

Try to remember that Lance got dropped on these late in the day MSR climbs that you think are so easy.

The poggio is 3700 meters long, that's 2+ miles. We do a little hill in Harlem (Central Park 35+ race) that's about 400 meters long in the big ring and it can be tough when the hammer is down. A 3700 meter climb is longer than most amateur racers would ever really sustain in similar gearing to the pros. And after 180 miles? Fughedaboudit.

All theoretical and debatable, but I come down on the side of 'most amateur cyclists have a distorted notion of their own capabilities' side. Most of my own delusions have been beaten out of me by the USCF.

classic1

I've driven over the Poggio. It's not that steep - very similar to a climb I used to race over on the big ring. I've no doubt a Cat 1 or 2 could get over it on the big ring. I was a bit surprised the Poggio wasn't harder to be honest, but after 290km averaging 45kmh it's all different - what is easy in a 50 mile race can be a ballbiter after 100 miles. Dunno what the Cipressa is like. It looks steeper than the Poggio on TV - didn't stop to look at that one.

patentcad

>> a Cat 1 or 2 <<

How many of those do we actually have in the USA? <3,000? How many licensed USCF cyclists? 75,000? How many 'fitness riders'? 8-10 million?

My point is that the Poggio would be challenging terrain even for most racing cyclists, let alone the rest of BF, and after 180 miles at race pace, it's a whole other story in my view. Hence Lance's shelling. I think it's the point in the race that makes it a ball breaker more than the terrain. I still find it amazing some of these 'sprinters' who can't climb can get over any climb in the lead group < 2 miles long in most races.

classic1

Pcaddy, I reckon most cat 3's would climb it on the big ring. It ain't that steep. I've seen pictures of your driveway, that is steeper than the Poggio. Whether they can hang with other racers is another story, same as it would be on any climb. As for the 180 mile business, most people here couldn't ride that far, little own race it.

On another issue, did you see this little snippet from your link about the record for the Poggio?

Furlan smashed them, and he was about the only rider in the race using downtube shift levers.

patentcad

Stop arguing with me.

classic1

I'm not arguing with you. I'm farkin telling you.

CrimsonKarter21

So by classic1's accounts, Nike should have never named their shoes Poggio's, it should be "Nike Mt. Doom".

Also, it's "Let alone" not "little own". I always avoiding typing that because "little own" made no sense. Then I read the correct way somewhere.

Ratfish

So does this mean that cervelos don't actually suck as bad as pharding was saying?

Racer Ex 

To paraphrase the prophet Robert Palmer:

Your lights are on, but you're not home
Your mind is not your own
Your heart sweats, your body shakes
Another frame, was what it takes

You can't eat. You can't sleep
Your favorite bike, it just got beat
A kid named Cav, got up the hills
He says his Scott, it gives him thrills

Whoa, you like to think that that frames really up to snuff, oh
Yeah

Closer to the truth is that first loser ain't the stuff

You know you're gonna have to face it your ADDICTed to second

Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second
Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second
Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second
Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second

stapfam

Cavendish winning the first day TT at the Tour of Britain in 07. He went backwards from then on. Hope 09 doesn't go the same way.

YMCA

44.4k avg for almost 300k (that's 27.5mph for the metrically challenged).

Imagine sitting in a pack for 7 hours and rolling at 31mph for stretches that never end. Then climbing at ballistic speeds. And fighting the whole damn time to hold position within 200 riders.

Now how many of you youngin's really think you can find this level? Stay in college.

patentcad

Characterizing R. Palmer as a 'poet' is almost as dumb as calling Pcad a 'bike racer'.

Almost.

gsteinb

Any hill can be hard if you go hard enough. Harlem hill isn't hard. What makes it hard is guys who are tentative on the descent before the hill, and then the fact that the point on the course where the race gets hardest is just after the hill. Instinctively guys want to coast on a descent that doesn't happen there. So if you get gapped before the hill, and then have to chase up and over across a gap you've got problems.

Same thing happens at Jiminy peak. The climb isn't that hard, and it can be big ringed. But what makes it hard is that guys blast down the other end and gaps open.

Tiorotti Brook Road isn't hard either at 15-16 miles an hour, but try it at 22. It's a different universe.

I couldn't ride 180 miles. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would even want to.

Racer Ex 

Read the "characterization" again.

Poet.

Not.

patentcad

Correct. Harlem hill is an easy upgrade, but it's harder when they go up it @ 20 mph. It gets really hard when they do that two laps in a row, that's where I got dumped two weeks ago. My bad for not having position on the descent as you point out. Easier said than done of course. It was much easier this week, they actually slowed down going up the grade.

Thank you Jesus. Further proof that God watches out for drunks, bums, and posers, and since I have 2/3 of that covered, He is in my corner.

gsteinb

Thank Bernie, not Jesus.

classic1

I watched a DVD of the race the other night. Worst MSR I have ever seen. Totally disappointing. One pissy attack on the Cipressa, then tempo riding almost to the top of the Poggio before mediocre attacks near the top by Rebellin (to little) and Pozzato (too late). I'm not criticising the first two place getters, but any wonder the likes of Cavendish, Haussler and Bennati were able to haul their carcasses over the Poggio.

YMCA

I'll have to disagree on Haussler. That guys form has been "beyond" a sprinter.

Bennati is really not a pure sprinter. He has been pigeonholed by his team, because of the fact that he can.

Cav was just plain motivated.

But I see your point, in that monuments shouldn't have such large groups at the finish.

classic1

It was one of the most negative races I have ever seen. It was everything that can be bad about MSR, as suggested by botto. I generally disagree with bottos assessment that MSR is boring. I reckon it is usually a warp speed full on aggression balls out hard finale, but this year sucked. It was everything botto dislikes about MSR. He put the mozz on it.