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Old 03-20-09, 02:12 PM   #1
Second Mouse
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Windy Crit - When to Jump?

Assuming you're racing on a 1 mile loop on a long, east-west oval (so that you're going either east or west most of the time), when would you jump if you're going to try a break? Just as you're turning to go with the wind or as you're turning into the wind. Or maybe part of the way along one of the sides?

And do you see any advantage to trying a break in windy conditions rather than when it's calm?

This would most likely be toward the end of the race, with a lap or two to go, since I don't have the poop to stay out there solo much longer than that.

Thanks.

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Old 03-20-09, 02:14 PM   #2
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Depends on your makeup.

If you have a high watts/wind resistance then jump just after the corner to get a gap and ride into the wind with no one on your wheel. If you have tons of power, or high watts/kg jump with the wind and hope your acceleration alone will do it.
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Old 03-20-09, 02:16 PM   #3
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Depends on your makeup.

If you have a high watts/wind resistance then jump just after the corner to get a gap and ride into the wind with no one on your wheel. If you have tons of power, or high watts/kg jump with the wind and hope your acceleration alone will do it.
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Old 03-20-09, 02:18 PM   #4
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She looks like the type to jump into the wind. All that mascara.
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Old 03-20-09, 02:22 PM   #5
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When would you jump? When you can get someone to go with. It's fairly suicidal to try a solo breakaway on a windy circuit course with no corners.

That said, I'd try jumping right at the end of the windy section. The head wind might delay a chase until you get to the downwind side and you can use this time to get a bit of a gap. Through the downwind section, the chasing pack will not have as much of an advantage over a solo rider. But you'd better be well and gone by the time you get back to the headwind section. Otherwise it's curtains and a pack will always have the advantage going into a headwind, particularly toward the end of the race when breaks start looking more threatening and people are motivated to come to the head of the group and chase.
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Old 03-20-09, 02:22 PM   #6
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is the wind blowing against your direction of travel across the finish line?
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Old 03-20-09, 02:26 PM   #7
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is the wind blowing against your direction of travel across the finish line?
Usually it's going about 45° across the direction of travel, i.e., in a northwest or southeast direction. So it's not really a true tailwind but one direction definitely has the wind advantage
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Old 03-20-09, 02:26 PM   #8
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Start your jump just before you get out of the wind, so you have speed and a slight gap built up by the time you get the wind at your back. Stay aero and efficient, don't look back, don't get out of the drops, head down and tucked, make each pedal stroke count. No mercy, ever.
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Old 03-20-09, 02:44 PM   #9
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A flat and windy course favors watts as opposed to watts/kg. If you have "the snot" make your move on the last into the wind leg and drill it. Once you get the wind at your back it is hard for a main group to make up time on a solo/"small group".
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Old 03-20-09, 03:38 PM   #10
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Attack into the corner, duh. Applies to every crit. Just go balls-out right before the corner and pray that your tires will stick.
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Old 03-20-09, 03:43 PM   #11
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yeah, same tactics as any other crit. Especially if the wind is 45-degrees on one side or the other. But it's A LOT easier to get away on the direction that has the 45-deg. headwind vs. the 45-deg. tailwind. That's because 1000wts into a headwind will give you a greater speed-differential over the pack than into a tailwind. Let's say you're going 30mph with slight tailwind, jumping with all your strength might get you up to 40mph, or +10mph over the pack. However, if you're going into a slight headwind at 25mph, you may be able to jump to 37mph and get +12mph over the pack.
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Old 03-20-09, 03:49 PM   #12
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Jump into the wind.

Riders will hesitate more to chase. They will be waiting for the finish and not wanting to do that extra little bit of work. This tiny hesitation will add a few seconds to your gap.

That goes for pretty much any obstacle or difficulty on a course. Always use it to your advantage. You will force a selection and this is always a good thing (assuming you can stay with it).
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Old 03-20-09, 08:52 PM   #13
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Attack into the wind. People will hesitate to respond since its a headwind and hopefully that is enough for you to get a good enough gap to stay away.
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Old 03-20-09, 09:34 PM   #14
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Let's say you're going 30mph with slight tailwind, jumping with all your strength might get you up to 40mph,
huh? my sprint with no wind only goes to 32! damn i feel weak reading this! lol
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Old 03-20-09, 10:54 PM   #15
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Good question...appreciate the comments.
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Old 03-21-09, 06:15 AM   #16
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Yep, that hesitation is key, and any conditions that make hesitation more likely are preferable.
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Old 03-21-09, 08:18 AM   #17
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Attack into the corner, duh. Applies to every crit. Just go balls-out right before the corner and pray that your tires will stick.
Exactly, don't worry too much about the wind, pack dynamics are much more important. Just look for the opportunity in the last lap when the pack slows down a little, then sprint as hard as you can so you have about 20 to 50 yards on the pack as you enter the corner. Put your head down and go.
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Old 03-21-09, 03:22 PM   #18
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Into the wind. Nobody really wants to work into the wind, anyone and everyone will chase with a tail wind.
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Old 03-21-09, 06:50 PM   #19
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I jump at about 100 meters to go in a headwind. 150-200 in "no" wind. 200-300 in a tailwind. That's the only way I'd get any results in a crit.

If you see me jump any earlier than that (i.e. on some random lap that is not the finish) it means I'm working for someone else or I'm feeling unbelievably good.

cdr
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Old 03-21-09, 07:31 PM   #20
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I jump at about 100 meters to go in a headwind. 150-200 in "no" wind. 200-300 in a tailwind. That's the only way I'd get any results in a crit.

If you see me jump any earlier than that (i.e. on some random lap that is not the finish) it means I'm working for someone else or I'm feeling unbelievably good.

cdr
Exactly what he said. Nornally I'll sit in as long as possible and conserve energy until the last 200 meters. *If* (and that's a big if) I'm going to attack, I'll do it 5-6 places back from the front of the peloton and light most of my matches to put as much distance on the main group. There's been a couple of times I thought I could get away from further distances (against a headwind or when the peloton slows down with around 500-700 meters as riders fight for wheels), and despite feeling really good, I was beaten in the last 25-50 meters.
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Old 03-22-09, 07:48 AM   #21
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1/2 the distance you normally would but be prepared to jump on another wheel when the start sprinting at their normal time.
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Old 03-22-09, 07:57 AM   #22
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Thanks everyone--much good input as always.

The wind in yesterday's race really fractured the groups, even in the P/1/2 and 3/4 races. We 5s looked like chickens with our heads cut off. Confusing but fun.
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Old 03-22-09, 07:19 PM   #23
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That wind was crazy. Were there any crashes?
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Old 03-22-09, 07:52 PM   #24
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I jump at about 100 meters to go in a headwind. 150-200 in "no" wind. 200-300 in a tailwind. That's the only way I'd get any results in a crit.

If you see me jump any earlier than that (i.e. on some random lap that is not the finish) it means I'm working for someone else or I'm feeling unbelievably good.

cdr
I figured out a third situation where I jump before that time - when I'm desperately scared and panicked about losing an overall lead. Used up 2/3 of my sprint bridging to a group that I thought was on its way to bridging to another group. ends up the "another group" didn't exist and the group I bridged to decided to sit up because the whole field was on my wheel.

10 laps later I blew in the field sprint for 4th and got nada. arg.

cdr
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Old 03-22-09, 08:26 PM   #25
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That wind was crazy. Were there any crashes?
Yeah, there was one in the B group on the last turn, took out about 4 riders, and one in the C group ahead of me on that "S" turn where one or two guys went down. Looked like road rash but nothing serious.

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I figured out a third situation where I jump before that time - when I'm desperately scared and panicked about losing an overall lead. Used up 2/3 of my sprint bridging to a group that I thought was on its way to bridging to another group. ends up the "another group" didn't exist and the group I bridged to decided to sit up because the whole field was on my wheel.

10 laps later I blew in the field sprint for 4th and got nada. arg.

cdr
It's some consolation to hear that stuff like that happens to guys like you, too, cdr.
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