Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-22-09, 05:27 PM   #1
sac02
i ride a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ghetto-rig a TT bike, or just suck it up?

I just finished a stage race, and while my results in the two road race stages weren't anything to write home about, they weren't really disappointing either. The TT was another matter; I lost BIG time there. Of course I want to blame my equipment (or lack thereof) for my failure.

I have a 54cm Allez that is sitting around collecting dust (I now ride a 56cm Tarmac that fits better). After being destroyed in the TT, the idea of converting it into a ghetto-TT rig ("ghetto" b/c it would be budget-limited - likely a hodgepodge of used parts) is dancing in my head. I had promised myself that I wouldn't spend any money on non-essential equipment for a while, but I love breaking promises that result in me getting new stuff.

Would it be worth it to get a TT cockpit, aero helmet, and set forward seat/seatpost? Or at this point (rookie racer), should I just suck it up and train more?

Mac
sac02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 05:30 PM   #2
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you plan on racing more stage races, you will need a TT bike and you will need to spend serious time on it. Get one, TT's are actually a pretty fun part of stage races and they'll make you a better racer in general. You can get cheap TT frames on eBay for less than $300, sell your Allez and buy a real TT frame.
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 05:36 PM   #3
sac02
i ride a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just spent serious money on my new Tarmac; the TT bike thing will only happen the absolutely, positively cheapest way possible, i.e. no new frames.

Mac
sac02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 05:56 PM   #4
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Just get yourself some aero bars, that's all you need. Don't jack the saddle forward or lower the bars because it will destroy your fit.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 06:02 PM   #5
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Aero bars, set forward seatpost, and a saddle you can use on the setup.

Maybe an adjustable stem if you need to get lower.

Add in a TT helmet and you're done.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 06:33 PM   #6
marsh283
Senior Member
 
marsh283's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: EL, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmckenna View Post
Just get yourself some aero bars, that's all you need. Don't jack the saddle forward or lower the bars because it will destroy your fit.
Errr, putting some aero bars on is going to jack up his fit. A TT fit is entirely different than a road fit so he might as well get things that can help facilitate this on a non-TT bike. See above^
marsh283 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 06:54 PM   #7
Nate552
Senior Member
 
Nate552's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Bikes: Orbea Orca Trek 5500 Trek Equinox
Posts: 2,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post
I just finished a stage race, and while my results in the two road race stages weren't anything to write home about, they weren't really disappointing either. The TT was another matter; I lost BIG time there. Of course I want to blame my equipment (or lack thereof) for my failure.
Fayetteville?
Nate552 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 07:57 PM   #8
sac02
i ride a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
Fayetteville?
Yes
sac02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 07:59 PM   #9
sac02
i ride a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Also, can anyone comment on whether it's good or bad that the Allez that is the candidate for this conversion is a size smaller than my road bike?

Mac
sac02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 09:01 PM   #10
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh283 View Post
Errr, putting some aero bars on is going to jack up his fit. A TT fit is entirely different than a road fit so he might as well get things that can help facilitate this on a non-TT bike. See above^
You can't force a road bike to be a TT bike. Aero bars will get you into the proper streamlined position but that is it, and for the most part that is all you need.

These are great bars because they are designed to be used on your road bike without any adjustments:



I've won several TT's with these bars on my road bike with no fit adjustments. I have a nice TT rig now but quite frankly have ben thinking about ditching the TT bike and using these clip on's why? Because first of all when you travel with your friends and teammates it's a pain in the ass to be the guy that has to take up bike rack and hotel space with all his gear. And more importantly if you train mostly on your road bike than that is the fit that you are used to and so will be most proficient at. I only get out on the TT bike maybe once a week. If you train a lot on the TT bike then it may be a useful tool to you but if not, like I do, then you may be better off with simple clip ons.

The OP is trying to save money and not get a TT rig and my point is that trying to convert a road bike to a TT bike is a waste of time, effort, money and most importantly, watts.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 10:35 PM   #11
cedricbosch
W.W.DZ.D?
 
cedricbosch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Bikes:
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post
Also, can anyone comment on whether it's good or bad that the Allez that is the candidate for this conversion is a size smaller than my road bike?

Mac
Very good thing. If you were buying a real TT bike you would probably want to go one size smaller anyway. Most people do.
cedricbosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 11:56 PM   #12
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,555
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh283 View Post
Errr, putting some aero bars on is going to jack up his fit.
True dat.

Setting up a dedicated TT rig can be done for pretty cheap with the Allez, probably around $150 or less if you do some bargain shopping and use your other wheels.

If you plan on doing more stage races and TT's, and are willing to put in at least a couple of hours a week on it, I don't think it's a bad idea, and would be a lot better than slapping some aerobars on the road bike. If you're debating if $150 would be better spent on a new iPod and you were hung over for one or more stages this weekend, don't bother.

What was your time at F-ville BTW? (you can PM me with it if it was >20mins)
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 12:18 AM   #13
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmckenna View Post
You can't force a road bike to be a TT bike. Aero bars will get you into the proper streamlined position but that is it, and for the most part that is all you need.
Blah blah blah.
Dude. You're not getting it.

If he 'converts' his Allez into a TT bike with aerobars, set forward post, and a stem to get low enough (if needed) he has the fit for a TT setup. This is the most bang for buck way of getting a TT rig in terms of priceerformance.

Sure, he could save a second every mile with a dedicated TT rig, but this will be much faster than just clip ons on his road bike.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 10:44 AM   #14
marsh283
Senior Member
 
marsh283's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: EL, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Plus just slapping aero bars on a roadie and not adjusting seat angle/height, reach etc is really gonna close you up. Trust me (dont care if you do actually) I am a converted triathlete who tried to pull this for a year, and you can produce soo much more power with a steeper seat angle because you have more open hips (kind of like sitting up when going up a hill). Do what you will, but the set forward post isnt that expensive so if you have a little dough layin around id get it
marsh283 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 10:45 AM   #15
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
Posts: 33,864
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
I'm doing this with my Trek 5200: forward seatpost, aero/cowhorn bars, bar-end shifters, and a rear wheel cover. All I need now is an aero helmet. The wind won't know or care that it's not a TT designed frame.
caloso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 12:34 PM   #16
sac02
i ride a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
What was your time at F-ville BTW? (you can PM me with it if it was >20mins)
It wasn't over 20min but it was disappointingly close to that; let's just say I lost 3 minutes in a 6.6 mile TT and was in the bottom quarter of my category.

Sat morning I felt good and finished top 10 (with the pack's time). For the TT I did about a 40 min warmup. I planned on doing the first 2 miles of the TT at a HR of 175bpm, then 2 miles at 180bpm, then 2miles at 185bpm, then whatever I had left for the finish. Unfortunately I just couldn't seem to "hurt" myself in the TT though, I had trouble making myself work hard enough to get my HR over 175. My legs felt warm like they were working, but not on fire like I was really giving it my all. I don't really know how to describe the fact that I wanted to push harder, but just couldn't.

While I want to believe a TT rig would help me, I'm pretty sure it's me that's the problem. But at this point I'm not sure if it's my mental toughness (that I just need to suck it up and make myself work harder), or if it's my body that wasn't ready to do two hard efforts in one day (which I had never done before).

Mac
sac02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 01:28 PM   #17
Apus^2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Looking for my right leg muscles.
Bikes: 2000 Cannondale CAAD3 Triple 105/Ultegra
Posts: 1,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Convert your allez to a ghetto tt rig (cockpit, zero setback seatpost, seat forward, etc). That is what I have done with my cdale (it is back to my road bike now, but will evolve back when I get my new bike). I'm concentrating on the major cross sectional area. If I ever become a threat tt'ing and start losing races by a relatively small time period (I haven't been able to do many this year), I'll consider getting a TT frame.

Then make sure you follow the doctor's advice here:
Before you start another TT thread, click here.
Apus^2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 01:29 PM   #18
Hida Yanra
VeloSIRraptor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deschutes
Bikes:
Posts: 4,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Interesting thread- I'm actually in the process of converting my '06 Allez into pretty much this.
I am adding a set-forward seatpost, mini-aerobars, and if the budget can stretch- a tri saddle.

Granted, mine is for draft-legal tris, but the principle is about the same. I would second the thought that opening up the leg angle is a big deal. I did some TTs on this bike with a standard road setup, in which I stayed in the drops and tried to get aero as much as possible. I didn't get all that much sustained power because I was just too bent over.
Hida Yanra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 01:44 PM   #19
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,555
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post
While I want to believe a TT rig would help me, I'm pretty sure it's me that's the problem. But at this point I'm not sure if it's my mental toughness (that I just need to suck it up and make myself work harder), or if it's my body that wasn't ready to do two hard efforts in one day (which I had never done before).

Mac
You're right on both counts. It's you and the bike.

Bike: You're going to add at least 45-60 seconds on that course using a road bike instead of a TT rig.

You: Bad course to try to pace on HR, better to do on PE, better still on power. And pacing on HR after a road race can be pretty problematic. Mistake one.

Obviously don't know your training, but you ought to come into a TT like this having recreated a similar effort many times. Anything much over 17:30 on that course means there's some big flaws in your preparation, mechanical and/or physical.

Last edited by Racer Ex; 03-23-09 at 02:12 PM.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 02:14 PM   #20
Nate552
Senior Member
 
Nate552's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Bikes: Orbea Orca Trek 5500 Trek Equinox
Posts: 2,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post
Unfortunately I just couldn't seem to "hurt" myself in the TT though, I had trouble making myself work hard enough to get my HR over 175. My legs felt warm like they were working, but not on fire like I was really giving it my all. I don't really know how to describe the fact that I wanted to push harder, but just couldn't.
RacerX is right, because you did a RR earlier in the day your heart rate wasn't a good indicator as "drift" was occurring. I ditched my HRM and went off of perceived effort.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
Anything much over 17:30 on that course means there's some big flaws in your preparation, both mechanical and physical.
Whew, thank goodness I did a 17:29.
Nate552 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 03:51 PM   #21
jvan12345
Senior Member
 
jvan12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The armpit of America
Bikes:
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whew, thank goodness I did a 17:29. [/QUOTE]

16:59 here. Do I have the RacerX seal of approval? (oh, and the top time of 14:08 in the p/1/2's...that's just wrong)
jvan12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 04:44 PM   #22
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,555
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvan12345 View Post
Whew, thank goodness I did a 17:29.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvan12345 View Post
16:59 here. Do I have the RacerX seal of approval? (oh, and the top time of 14:08 in the p/1/2's...that's just wrong)
Approved. The wind had a big effect, I got unlucky and went out during one of the peaks, higher power than last year and only a bit faster, but that kid just killed it.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 04:49 PM   #23
Nate552
Senior Member
 
Nate552's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Bikes: Orbea Orca Trek 5500 Trek Equinox
Posts: 2,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvan12345 View Post
Whew, thank goodness I did a 17:29.
16:59 here. Do I have the RacerX seal of approval? (oh, and the top time of 14:08 in the p/1/2's...that's just wrong)[/QUOTE]

A Junior had the best time!
Nate552 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 05:40 PM   #24
nitropowered
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Posts: 5,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can use your 54cm Allez to make your TT bike. I used a spare frame for a year or two as my TT bike that was a size smaller.
nitropowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 05:58 PM   #25
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,555
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
16:59 here. Do I have the RacerX seal of approval? (oh, and the top time of 14:08 in the p/1/2's...that's just wrong)
A Junior had the best time![/QUOTE]

I was thinking to myself that it was really windy and slow, other folks were telling me it was no bigge. Check out the wind data:

http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...r=2009&month=3
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 AM.