Dubbayoo

I'm trying to put together a sprint training session for the indoor trainer; something built around 15-30 second efforts. Can you guys throw out a few sample workouts as far as how many; how much rest between; should I do them in sets or equal rest between all? I haven't done a sprint workout in a decade so I doubt I'll get past 4-5 efforts the first few tries anyway.

I use a Polar power meter that has a pretty big delay so not much point in trying to capture 5-10 second sprints. Maybe think of it as a workout for a points race, not a pure sprint; maybe totaling about 3 minutes of all out efforts ? (minus the rest in between of course)

ottsville

20s on/40s off for 5 mins. 8 mins recovery. 3x(or more)
or
3sets of 5 30s/30s 10min recovery between sets

bitingduck

Aren't you close enough that you should be doing that stuff on a nice banked wooden track? Still indoors, but way more fun

Dubbayoo

Let's see.

Indoor trainer
Travel/prep time - About 6' from this desk; 5 minutes to get dressed and start
Cost - zero

Track
Travel/prep time - 45 minutes easy each way
Cost - $20/day track time; $15/day bike rental

Response: What is an expensive and poor use of time?
CORRECT!
I'll take Tom Danielson Injuries for $200, Alex.

bitingduck

If you go a lot it's as cheap as $6/week.

And *way* fun. Think of it as entertainment and not a sprint workout.

nitropowered

I would find a long enough road and do it outside.

When I do sprint workouts, I rest a lot. Typical is 5:1 ratio. But I usually go longer so I can fully recover. If you want to work on your max power, you have to sprint at 100%.

enjoi07

" My training is more practical in that i go fast up the hill all the way to the top. I never tried in a race to do intervals, but it seems that it wouldn't work. Telling the peloton, "Look , were going slow for the next 15 minutes so i can recover." So what i do is get on my bike in the morning and ride as hard as i can until I'm done riding my bike." Floyd Landis on training- ROAD Magazine.

Dubbayoo

I just adapted something from Spinervals since, other than ottsville, you clowns can't stay on topic.

These will be 120-140rpm

enjoi07

^that works too...

bitingduck

I think Duvendeck and Travis Smith have occasionally run sprint sessions at ADT. And Roach used to lead some on wednesday nights. for full on sprint workouts I've seen some of those guys do only 4-5 efforts over ~2 hours.

MDcatV

I'm of the mindset that a true sprint workout needs to be either outside or on the indoor track (that's for bitingduck) as you need to be able to rock the bike and explode into your efforts like you want to break things in half. doing that indoors just wont work as effectively.

in fact, I wont do a sprint workout without a leadout, but that's just me.

bitingduck

I've seen guys on the track go from 20 mph to 55 behind a motorcycle. Awesome to watch. I can't even come close.

cmh

I'm with mdcatV and bitingduck. I don't do sprint workouts indoors as I can't tighten the trainer enough to avoid some slipping, and I can't rock the bike. My sprint workouts are as simple as picking a few phone poles and sprinting between them (I usually go 2 poles in a sprint - which is 12-15 sec). Then roll around for 3-5 minutes easy and do it again. I do 8-10 in a workout.

Dubbayoo

Most track sprinters rock the bike very little compared to roadies. It's near impossible to keep the bar movement in sync with a 130+ rpm cadence....ohh, and only a candy ass needs a leadout for a training session.


Hence the reason I'm doing 20-30 second seated accelerations - less slippage. I build up to AT then sprint from there. I can hit 140 rpm in a 50x15 on my KK trainer.

Again, if I wanted to work on max power I'd do 5-10 sec efforts, not 15-30. I'm really looking for long sprint power - flying 500's as bitingduck would put it. I'm 44 and don't race so a pure max sprint workout is of little utility to me.

Anyone who's been to P.V. knows there probably isn't a flat 300 meter stretch in the entire zip code. I can sprint on the river trails which I can't get to during the week. Hence the reason I'm looking for an indoor workout. You guys are clearly the type that will preach the value of vegetarianism to people who go to a restaurant asking for a steak.

BigSean

I do what I call a surge workout on my trainer. Its meant to target the surges in crits. They are typically 20-30 seconds. I go from 24mph, seated up as high as I can go and hold it for about 15 seconds if I can. I then back sown to 18-20mph to recover my HR to under 140bpm. As the workout progress's it takes longer for me to recover to that point. Hence the reason I go by HR instead of time.

MDcatV

since you're insistent upon trying for max efforts on your indoor trainer because it's too hilly where you live (who's the candy ass again), I'd suggest variations on the following:

-SST or FTP (2x20s or 1x60 or whatever it is you do) and every 5 minutes do a 30" max seated effort
-6x1' on/2' off, first and last 15s of each minute all out sprint
-2 sets of 8x/10x 30s on/30s off, seated max efforts, w/5' between sets
-2 sets of 4 minutes of 20s on/10s off
-10 minutes of 10s on/20s off/20s on/10s off
-10 minutes of 15s on/30s off/45s on/15s off

or if you're comfortable sprinting while locked into your trainer just do 6 - 10 reps of 15s sprints out of the saddle, or start and finish every 30s effort out of the saddle.

no magic to it, just go as hard as you can for a short duration and decide whether you want to punish yourself with either decreasing recovery, full recovery, or something in between.

cmh

OK. So you are not doing a pure sprint workout, you are looking more for anaerobic work capacity. I would recommend something like the 30 on/30" off or tabata efforts other people described above.

Also - you shouldn't assume anyone on the board has been to P.V., and there is no reason you can't do sprint workouts on hills - up and down. In fact if you don't have a leadout having a hill is preferred.

I think the closer analogy is that you went to a restaurant and ordered a burger. Then returned it because you are a vegetarian and you meant to order a garden burger.

bitingduck

I just like to encourage people to get out on the track.

I'm the kind of guy who will take your order for a steak and then suggest you check out the track... (plus there's that track pic for your avatar, so you're at least a little predisposed that way). Plus you can get good training tips for free from some of the best riders in the world if you spend a little time there.

A flying 500 is a pretty good sprint workout-- it's not a match sprint thing (maybe it is, but I'm a mass start endurance guy), but if you look at how people have been winning at the Keirin for the past few years, it's by training for the Kilo the year before.