Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    NYC nycphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Perioditization...

    Ok, let's say I'm supposed to do a 90 minute endurance zone 2 workout.


    Why physiologically is it not better to do 120 minutes of Tempo (if you have the chance).

    Why would you not get the endurance benefits since you would be doing at least as much if not more workout?
    5 out of 5 people think the other 4 are idiots. - me
    The only thing more incorrect than politically incorrect is politically correct. - me
    If 3 were 5, you'd be a 10. - me (or: If 3 were 5, you'd be in mensa.)
    Sarcasm truly is wasted on the simple. - me
    How small does your __ have to be to drive like that? - me
    It's not how fast you get old... it's how fast you get irrelevant.. - me
    The plural of anecdote is not data. - grolby

  2. #2
    mountain troll deadly downtube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    santa cruz mountains
    My Bikes
    the hummer brand mountain bike
    Posts
    1,126
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thinking about stuff like this is why i decided to train EURO STYLE, by gut feeling alone... i think almost all cyclists will benefit from going out and doing a hard long ride, periodizing is for when you're already a real friggin bike racer (not cat4/5) and you want to target an event (like say the TdF, not the lil indiana 500)

  3. #3
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    east coast
    My Bikes
    Cervelo R3
    Posts
    3,032
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    if you can't spell, don't do it

  4. #4
    Primate Metzinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    gone
    My Bikes
    Concorde Columbus SL, Rocky Mountain Edge, Sparta stadfiets
    Posts
    2,582
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Remember, training isn't about exhausting yourself, though it often feels that way.
    It's about protein synthesis. Sometimes it is better to feel as though you could have done more. If your schedule is properly designed, you'll be stronger for the following ride.

  5. #5
    Senior Member euphoria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,531
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    120 minutes of tempo every day would land you in the gutter quick, so you'd have to follow it with z2 the next day to rest and further refine your aerobic pathway

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,357
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
    Ok, let's say I'm supposed to do a 90 minute endurance zone 2 workout.


    Why physiologically is it not better to do 120 minutes of Tempo (if you have the chance).

    Why would you not get the endurance benefits since you would be doing at least as much if not more workout?
    what did you do the day before and what are you doing the next day?

    if you did something >ftp day before, and are planning similar the next day, then shifting your workout from l2 to l3 *might* compromise proper recovery from day prior and compromise quality next day.

    with training more and harder doesnt always = better, sometimes you've gotta turn off "racer brain" which is always thinking train harder, and turn on your common sense.

  7. #7
    Foot + Mouth = me aperez8264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belleville, nj
    My Bikes
    2007 Specialized Tarmac Pro
    Posts
    198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^
    +1, buy Friel's book it will answer these questions.
    cat-3-o meter: 25%
    the blog

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    377
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Riding at a moderate pace trains you to ride at a moderate pace. Sometimes, at least in my experience, races require you to ride less moderately... And +1 to the +1 of Friel's book (or the articles at trainingpeaks.com).

  9. #9
    Pedalphile
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aperez8264 View Post
    ^
    +1, buy Friel's book it will answer these questions.
    It's the called the Bible for a reason.

  10. #10
    awaiting uci approval tombailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix RC 06
    Posts
    963
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You will have built your endurance in the "base" phase. You are now looking for muscular and cardiovascular development from your sessions. You can't do those sessions everyday (you should be doing them at an intensity that would make that impossible). If you are only 1-2 years into riding you will likely get more benefit from resting completely on those "off" days than from having a recovery ride.

  11. #11
    NYC nycphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aperez8264 View Post
    ^
    +1, buy Friel's book it will answer these questions.
    I have Friel's book. While Friel's book has a great deal of WHAT, most of it's WHY is directed at addressing limiters.

    The specific question I asked, "physiologically why do I not get the endurance benefits of a 90 minute workout from a 120 tempo workout" is not addressed. Or if it is, and I overlooked it, a reference w/ page number would be appreciated. Thanks.


    And FWIW, I am following (as best I can given that I have one of those fun NYC jobs) the training program proscribed by my coach. but sometimes I wonder WHY certain things are what they are.

    Understanding the WHY is what helps me to get the most benefit from the assigned workouts, by best understanding the goals and the mechanisms by which the workouts advance the goals.
    5 out of 5 people think the other 4 are idiots. - me
    The only thing more incorrect than politically incorrect is politically correct. - me
    If 3 were 5, you'd be a 10. - me (or: If 3 were 5, you'd be in mensa.)
    Sarcasm truly is wasted on the simple. - me
    How small does your __ have to be to drive like that? - me
    It's not how fast you get old... it's how fast you get irrelevant.. - me
    The plural of anecdote is not data. - grolby

  12. #12
    NYC nycphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Metzinger View Post
    Remember, training isn't about exhausting yourself, though it often feels that way.
    It's about protein synthesis. Sometimes it is better to feel as though you could have done more. If your schedule is properly designed, you'll be stronger for the following ride.
    OK, so its about recovery?

    120 of tempo does give the endurance benefits of 90 of Endurance, but also carries a larger training load w/ increased recovery requirements?

    So let's go hypothetical, and say I have 4 consecutive days of 90 minute endurance workouts.

    But on day 2, I can ride w/ a friend or a group knowing that I'll be ~120 minutes in Tempo (because that's the reasonable compromise that enables us to ride together).

    Now I've basically overtrained on Day 2, but since Day 3 is scheduled endurance 90, it's not the end of the world, and I can still do that endruance workout no problem.

    However, If Day 3 was heavy intervals, then I might be insufficiently recovered to do them successfully. Right?



    So then... if I do the intervals before the social ride, then do the social ride 120 min @ tempo, and take day 3 as a recovery day... what is the physiological impact of that? It appears I get intervals, I get my endurance, and I get my recovery.


    Just trying to get my head around the variables that are in play.
    5 out of 5 people think the other 4 are idiots. - me
    The only thing more incorrect than politically incorrect is politically correct. - me
    If 3 were 5, you'd be a 10. - me (or: If 3 were 5, you'd be in mensa.)
    Sarcasm truly is wasted on the simple. - me
    How small does your __ have to be to drive like that? - me
    It's not how fast you get old... it's how fast you get irrelevant.. - me
    The plural of anecdote is not data. - grolby

  13. #13
    awaiting uci approval tombailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix RC 06
    Posts
    963
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You're engaging different energy/fuel systems riding at tempo than riding at endurance pace. Therefore you are training those energy systems, not the endurance energy systems.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,357
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    you're thinking too much, try it and see what happens. or maybe ask your coach, you're paying him/her for this stuff, right?

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmette, IL
    Posts
    4,325
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I used to race cat 1/2 on road and track. I dont have a clue as to what you guys are taking about.

    Go ride your bikes, for long periods of time, at different speeds. You'll do well.

  16. #16
    mountain troll deadly downtube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    santa cruz mountains
    My Bikes
    the hummer brand mountain bike
    Posts
    1,126
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I used to race cat 1/2 on road and track. I dont have a clue as to what you guys are taking about.

    Go ride your bikes, for long periods of time, at different speeds. You'll do well.
    haha, finally some good advice

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •