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  1. #1
    Senior Member WCroadie's Avatar
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    Rules are rules... what would you do

    Just curious how some of you would handle this situation:

    I did a stage race last weekend where it was made known up front that you had to finish each stage to race the next.

    After the 3rd stage, the crit, I was hanging around with some guys from another team when a young dude from a 3rd team rolled up to his car. My friend from team 2 took 5th in the Crit and the young kid took 3rd. Friend says nice job, it was a close finish, kid replies, it was only close until I blew by you and beat you by 1.5 bike lengths. The kid does not know my friend, the kid was not being funny, he was being cocky. My buddy responds, nice attitude kid, you are sure to make a lot of friends that way.

    The kid then goes on to tell us how he broke a derailluer hanger in the TT and never finished, had to borrow a bike for the crit. I then chimed in and said if you never finished the TT how were you allowed to even race the crit? The kid responds, was I supposed to walk my bike to the finish of the TT? I said yeah. He talked to the officials and they let him start the crit anyway.

    Now this kid has become very strong and will probably get his cat2 upgrade this year, he's only been racing for 3 years and still a junior. I will freely admit he is better then me, I don't care, but he is very cocky and a dangerous rider, he always pulls some bonhead move in the weekly training crit that almost kills some people. And is very sketchy in races. Several guys have tried taking him aside and talking to him, including me, he doesn't listen, says he doesn't care if he causes crashes, etc.

    I said to my friend that he should protest because the kid did not finish the TT and should not have been allowed to race the crit. I said I would only protest because of the smart@ss comments he made to my friend. My buddy did not protest, the kid ended up higher in the GC then my friend bumping him down a spot or two in the money.

    I did mention something to one of the officials and he replied, it was a mechanical we can make exceptions. I do not think this is fair but didn't push it cause I was a lot further down in the GC.

    What would you have done if you were my buddy?
    (Sorry for the long winded post)

  2. #2
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Let it roll of your back, man.

  3. #3
    Senior Member WCroadie's Avatar
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    I'm more bothered by the kids attitude, I would like to see him do well but wish he would change his tude. I know he is young and that is part of it. Once he starts racing with big boys they will put his @ss in the curb if he doesnt wise up.

  4. #4
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Unfortunately that attitude is not uncommon - in any competitive sport.
    You just have to be nice and smile and hope it changes those around you. If not, their loss. Not yours.


    or. Punch them in the face while they're pulling off their jersey after the race.

  5. #5
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    asshat snotnose kids irritate me, mostly because they're usually more talented than me and have their future ahead of them instead of being an aging 38 y.o. weekend warrior trying to have some competitive fun.

    if they (or anyone else for that matter) is riding dangerously, I have no problem verbally berating them mid-race. I've had it done to me, and I've done it lots.

    If I were your team mate, I think if within the protest period, it would have been a valid protest to make and force the officials to make a judgement call within the protest period. Afterwards, it's a moot point, and whether an actual decision was made by the officials regarding snot nose and his mechanical or whether official was placating you with a CYA response, who knows, but it's a moot discussion at that point.

    my sense of fairness does incline me to say that an exception for a mechanical is one that should be granted, especially at an amateur stage race. I would hate to committ my time to a weekend of racing and have it cut short due to a mechanical/flat that prevented me from finishing a stage.

  6. #6
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCroadie View Post
    I'm more bothered by the kids attitude, I would like to see him do well but wish he would change his tude. I know he is young and that is part of it. Once he starts racing with big boys they will put his @ss in the curb if he doesnt wise up.
    that excuse only goes so far.

  7. #7
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    In my last (3rd) crit Sunday there was a kid who looked no more than 12. His race age I really didn't know. But I've heard things about his cocky attitude and stuff. So during the race I started dragging the field up to a break for a bud of mine. I pull off and was expecting my mate to carry through. Lo and behold it was "Small Fry." I must have had the most perplexed look on my face. I had been so used to racing with the old dudes all day. When he pulled through I almost laughed (not in a mean way). But then I got my composure and stared him down hard like, "Get the F up there or I'll hunt you down after the race."

    I don't think it worked. I'm kind of a weenie.

  8. #8
    Senior Member WCroadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    Unfortunately that attitude is not uncommon - in any competitive sport.
    You just have to be nice and smile and hope it changes those around you. If not, their loss. Not yours.


    or. Punch them in the face while they're pulling off their jersey after the race.
    Maybe that will teach him

    You're right MDcatV it was after the 15 minute protest period when I mentioned it to the ref but not when I told my buddy to. And everyone around who heard the kid's cocky comment agreed they would protest strictly based on him being an ass, had he just say yeah, good race and btw, I had a mechanical at the TT, no one would care.

    I'm pretty sure he'll be at turkey hill saturday, I will point him out so you can stay away from his antics. Or let him have an earfull.

  9. #9
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Nothing is sillier than an asshat Road Nazi, regardless of their age or level of ability.

    Nothing I say. They used to bother me, now they just crack me up. Generally the fastest guys are often the nicest. Focus on those guys. Let the asshats stew in their own juices. There are too many great people in bike racing to focus on the jerks. You get them in every sport.

    F'em.

  10. #10
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    or. Punch them in the face while they're pulling off their jersey after the race.
    Not a bad idea but I prefer the judo chop to the throat myself.

  11. #11
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I'd protest. Even more so because if the official okayed it they would need to do some explaining as to why someone was allowed to circumvent the rules.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCroadie View Post
    I said to my friend that he should protest because the kid did not finish the TT and should not have been allowed to race the crit.
    Wrong. In a stage race there are provisions in the rules, usually expanded in the race bible, for riders suffering a mechanical in a TT. You can look them up for yourself.

  13. #13
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    Nothing is sillier than an asshat Road Nazi, regardless of their age or level of ability.

    Nothing I say. They used to bother me, now they just crack me up. Generally the fastest guys are often the nicest. Focus on those guys. Let the asshats stew in their own juices. There are too many great people in bike racing to focus on the jerks. You get them in every sport.

    F'em.
    Truth.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  14. #14
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    How about your team, and your friend's team make a concerted effort to mark every move the kid makes for the next few races. Cover every break he's in and then disrupt it (by not working, etc. not by anything dangerous.) Never let him have a wheel. Takes turns escorting him out the back. Make him work for everything. Teach him that he needs to have a bit better attitude or there are consequences.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  15. #15
    Love that dirty water JoesInBoston's Avatar
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    I take it this event was scored by points for each stage, and not time?

  16. #16
    getting dropped merckx89's Avatar
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    Just for the record, in a stage race you have until the start of the next stage to protest, not 15 min.
    Cat 1 o-meter: cowering in fear

  17. #17
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    I'd skip the protest. Really, sooner (usually) or later folks like this bounce their reality check pretty hard. Having said that, it may be time to box this guy in and keep him out of the money. Nobody wants a liability like that playing in their sand box.
    Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    It looks silly when you have quotes from other forum members in your signature. Nobody on this forum is that funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by cedricbosch View Post
    Why am I in your signature.

  18. #18
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    I'd skip the protest. Really, sooner (usually) or later folks like this bounce their reality check pretty hard. Having said that, it may be time to box this guy in and keep him out of the money. Nobody wants a liability like that playing in their sand box.
    Yeah, that.
    Mostly because i simply hate dcikheads.

  19. #19
    Senior Member MONGO!'s Avatar
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    Protesting his mechanical in the TT is pointless, since it doesn't qualify as a DNF.

    You could, however, protest his dumbass moves, if enough of you (and from more than one team) complain he will get sanctioned.

    Either way, he'll learn that he'll be racing against the same guys week after week and making enemies is a bad idea in the long run.

    Cockiness in young people is just a mask for insecurity, kid probably just needs a hug.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    How about your team, and your friend's team make a concerted effort to mark every move the kid makes for the next few races. Cover every break he's in and then disrupt it (by not working, etc. not by anything dangerous.) Never let him have a wheel. Takes turns escorting him out the back. Make him work for everything. Teach him that he needs to have a bit better attitude or there are consequences.
    stuff like that will take care of that as snot nose upgrades, and if he does ride dangerously, he'll eventually put himself in a situation he cant get out of and end up in a sling. I watched it happen to a kid last year, although he's not a cocky asshat, he has alot of pop, is aggressive, and not much of a conscious. everyone knew (including a mutual coach), and he got his wheel in a bunch of spots he couldnt get out. he crashed several times until eventually in a RR, he got in a pickle and next thing that happened was a ride in an ambulance. this kid healed up and won the cat 3 district RR and is a better racer for it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    He'll get his when he steps up to the Pro/1/2 game.

    Not only will he be a little fish in a much bigger pond, but just about everyone knows how to f*** with people.

    That said, until he leaves the 3s, I'd destroy his chances as often as possible. Don't sacrifice your own chances to do it, obviously, but be a bit more zealous in chasing him down as opposed to others.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  22. #22
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    Just stick a frame pump into his front wheel and tell him "I don't care as well if you crash."
    Gelato aficionado.

  23. #23
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    I guess the Golden Rule went right out the window here. lol.

  24. #24
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    I guess the Golden Rule went right out the window here. lol.
    He started it!


  25. #25
    Knowing's half the battle SushiJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Just stick a frame pump into his front wheel and tell him "I don't care as well if you crash."
    YES! Awesome!

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