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Old 05-10-09, 06:11 PM   #1
Frunkin
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Doubling up?

I'm wondering why I don't see many people double up on races around here. I normally do the 3 and P123 races whenever I can, but I notice that lots of the 3's don't double up. It seems a little more common in the masters fields though. I figure it's the best $10 workout available, but I don't see people taking advantage.
Do people double up in your area?
Why or why not?
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Old 05-10-09, 06:14 PM   #2
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I do it just about every chance offered, and I know other guys do too. But yeah, it's mostly masters doing it. I suspect that the 2/3 crowd is trying to save their legs.
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Old 05-10-09, 06:30 PM   #3
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If people are targeting races, then they're probably too spent to do the P123.
If I was a 3, I'd try to double up.

I'm a 4, and I try to do more 3/4 or 4 only races, while trying to avoid 4/5 races.
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Old 05-10-09, 06:32 PM   #4
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I double up practically every crit. I'm a 42 year old Cat 4. Oh, and I suck.
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Old 05-10-09, 07:07 PM   #5
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If people are targeting races, then they're probably too spent to do the P123.
If I was a 3, I'd try to double up.

I'm a 4, and I try to do more 3/4 or 4 only races, while trying to avoid 4/5 races.
I definitely target the 3's races, and do the P123 just hoping to finish. I've been popped 3 laps in before. I'm not to the point where I can do much besides sit in, but I feel like that 2nd race definitely works me more, and that added racing will pay off down the line.
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Old 05-10-09, 08:45 PM   #6
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I do every race I can at crits. I don't even like to go races anymore where I can't do at least two
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Old 05-10-09, 08:54 PM   #7
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I definitely target the 3's races, and do the P123 just hoping to finish. I've been popped 3 laps in before. I'm not to the point where I can do much besides sit in, but I feel like that 2nd race definitely works me more, and that added racing will pay off down the line.
Yeah, truth.

I haven't raced since bethel (early april), but it has a CAT 4 and a CAT 3/4. I only went to the 3/4 since it was much later in the day and I figured that I'd learn more in that race.

Besides, I'm honestly not sure I could have handled racing the 4 race and then having something left for the 3/4. I wanted to do well in the 3/4 and for a new CAT4, I think I did pretty well.

There's a tuesday nighter here, and once I'm done finals, I'm definitely going to double up for the A and B race there. Just sitting in for a harder race can teach you so much!
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Old 05-10-09, 08:58 PM   #8
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If there's a huge time gap between the 45+ and the P-1-2, I'll likely skip one of them. But if they're near each other, I'm in.
The trifecta is killer: 45+, 35+, and P-1-2.
That's a long day in the drops.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:28 PM   #9
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I did a lot of that last year, I noticed that I have to have a longer, more intense warmup going into the second race. My system will usually bog down if the warmup is too light, and I'll be the guy who just sits in and the race isn't worth it.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:33 PM   #10
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Most of the races here have the 3's right before the P123, so I get a cool down lap and then I'm lined up at the back, ready to go again. I have noticed that I do better if there is a longer time gap between races.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:34 PM   #11
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I'm the complete opposite. If the next race is immediately following, then I'm golden.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:51 PM   #12
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I'm the complete opposite. If the next race is immediately following, then I'm golden.
+1 and if it's the second race you are targeting it's a perfect warmup
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Old 05-10-09, 09:52 PM   #13
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A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:56 PM   #14
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A lot of people are not old enough.
+1 No doubling up for me for quite a few years.
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Old 05-10-09, 09:58 PM   #15
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+1 and if it's the second race you are targeting it's a perfect warmup
Right, I need a pretty hard warmup to race or ride well. I usually ride 5 miles to the local training crit and tack on another 3-4 waiting for the race. If I don't warmup much, or I decide to drive, then I can't race well.
On my way home after the race, I'm still in race mode and average 25+.
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Old 05-11-09, 12:14 AM   #16
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A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.
In socal there are a fair number of 30+ crits. I suspect that doesn't really change things for you, except for the amount of time you have to wait... It's nice for me though, since I'm 30
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Old 05-11-09, 12:22 AM   #17
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A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.
Thats kind of the 2nd part of my question. I kind of feel like there should be more races for the younger crowd, but I think for the promoters its more profitable, or easier to break even, when you have a lot of masters races. I mean there is a much higher percentage of racers over 30 here than under, and masters fields have the reputation of being safer, so it makes sense why they are more popular. There just aren't enough people to hold a U23 race on anything smaller than the national or international level (in the US).
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Old 05-11-09, 05:47 AM   #18
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If there were more Cat 3 races scheduled before the Masters, I'd think about doing both. But then the 3s would be much harder because I sort of rely on the Masters races to get the Masters 3s a bit tired. Usually the guys winning/placing in the 3s have already done two Masters races (and done very well in them, like winning them).

Since I target the 3s or 3/4s, I won't enter a race that's scheduled earlier in the day than that one.

At the same time, I'm finding it harder to hang onto the P123s after the 3s. I haven't finished a P123 race in probably 5 or 6 years (regardless of whether or not I did a 3 race before, although I usually did). If I can get into the meat of a P123 race (in a 40 lap race, make it into the last 10 laps with some legs left) then I'd do it. That's been 2-3 years.

With virtually no disposable income, my race budget has shrunk considerably and I'm spending it with some purpose in mind. So throwing $20 around suddenly seems excessive, whereas before it wasn't significant. So unless I feel like I could do most of the race, I won't spend the money.

I know it's a Catch-22. My early season used to be 1 - training series; 2 - enter a 123 race and hang on for dear life; 3 - enter Cat 3 races and think they're slow. Now I don't do step 2 because I can't hang on, and therefore Step 3 never happens.

cdr
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Old 05-11-09, 05:55 AM   #19
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I double or triple if I can.
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Old 05-11-09, 06:04 AM   #20
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Right, I need a pretty hard warmup to race or ride well. I usually ride 5 miles to the local training crit and tack on another 3-4 waiting for the race. If I don't warmup much, or I decide to drive, then I can't race well.
On my way home after the race, I'm still in race mode and average 25+.
+1, I can't ride at speed until I have a solid stinky sweat going.
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Old 05-11-09, 06:28 AM   #21
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You know what I never see, Quadrupling.

If I was 55, I'd do the 55+, 45+, 35+, and then play the P12's for what I had left.
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Old 05-11-09, 06:44 AM   #22
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You know what I never see, Quadrupling.

If I was 55, I'd do the 55+, 45+, 35+, and then play the P12's for what I had left.
Next year I may give it a shot at Sanford.

M40+
M30+
Cat3/4
Pro/1/2/3
(that is, if I'm still a 3 then)
Some guy attempted it last year but didn't finish the races.
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Old 05-11-09, 06:56 AM   #23
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I double up at nearly every crit. 35+, cat 3 or 123. given that the 123 is last race of the day (at like 3:00 or later) I usually skip it due to family obligations. I'd like to do more of them, but to be gone from home or expect my wife and 2 y.o. to hang out at the races for 6+ hours doest fly at chez MDcatV.
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Old 05-11-09, 02:56 PM   #24
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Most of our races around here don't have a P123 field, it is P12 only. Masters races are usually 40+ and a lot of us double up. I've never had the opportunity to try a triple.

Anyone double up on road races? I've seen quite a few 40+ guys do it around here, and I have one time but it is a pretty tough day for me.
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Old 05-11-09, 03:05 PM   #25
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I'll double up if I don't have more than one race between events; I prefer if the events are back to back.
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