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Old 06-04-09, 03:11 PM   #1
startedspyder05
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clarification on cat 5 upgrade requirements

I re-read the requirements to upgrade from a 5 for a 4 and I'm just a little unsure of something. I need to participate in 10 mass starts, but I'm slow and need a little clarification.

I'm curious to know if participating in a TT will do anything for upgrading yourself. I'm still waiting for the races I've been in to show up on my license.

I know a TT is in no way a "mass start" race but I'm really just hoping that I have a more of a reason to ride one.

They are painful and kind of fun, but I've been racing the stock class and I'm certainly not strong enough to pull a winning time(like that really matters anyway).
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Old 06-04-09, 03:14 PM   #2
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No TT's do not count.
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Old 06-04-09, 03:18 PM   #3
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Do the TT's if they are fun for you, not for upgrade reasons. And seriously, 10 mass starts is the requirement, not the recommendation. Upgrade after 10 only if you think you're ready. Trust me, the races are not any safer, just slightly longer.
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Old 06-04-09, 03:20 PM   #4
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Do the TT's if they are fun for you, not for upgrade reasons. And seriously, 10 mass starts is the requirement, not the recommendation. Upgrade after 10 only if you think you're ready. Trust me, the races are not any safer, just slightly longer.
and somewhat faster. The biggest difference is that you will find more faster guys so the field gets a bit deeper.
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Old 06-04-09, 03:22 PM   #5
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^^^ true. It sucks being in a cat 4 race with guys sitting on truck loads of upgrade points
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Old 06-04-09, 03:40 PM   #6
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You needn't wait for your race results to show up on usacycling.org to request an upgrade based on them.
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Old 06-04-09, 03:46 PM   #7
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and somewhat faster. The biggest difference is that you will find more faster guys so the field gets a bit deeper.
Depends who shows up. The cat 5 crit in the Ventura stage race was second in speed only to the P/1/2 and I think the M35+. A few really fast guys (*cough* spinwax *cough*) turned up the juice on that one. Of course it wasn't nearly as long as the other races...
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Old 06-04-09, 04:32 PM   #8
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You needn't wait for your race results to show up on usacycling.org to request an upgrade based on them.
In fact, if you do wait, you may never upgrade. Most promoters never report the results. It's up to you to keep your own race "resume."
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Old 06-04-09, 04:55 PM   #9
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Depends who shows up. The cat 5 crit in the Ventura stage race was second in speed only to the P/1/2 and I think the M35+. A few really fast guys (*cough* spinwax *cough*) turned up the juice on that one. Of course it wasn't nearly as long as the other races...
LOL, thanks for the props UMD, but I am slow and old... Actually after all said and done our race ended up within 2min or so of all but the 35+ and Pro 1-2 races length wise.

My last race as a 5 will be this weekend in Bakersfield! Should have moved up after Ventura, but that is another story.

5s are weird. You have such a mix of people.

1. People that just started riding and just started racing.
2. People that have been riding a while and just started racing.
3 Triathaletes. Man, these are the guys you have to watch out for.
4. Old guys like me, that raced 17yrs ago and just got back into the sport.
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Old 06-04-09, 04:57 PM   #10
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The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?
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Old 06-04-09, 04:58 PM   #11
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The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?
Mass start, US Cycling.
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Old 06-04-09, 05:01 PM   #12
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LOL, thanks for the props UMD, but I am slow and old... Actually after all said and done our race ended up within 2min or so of all but the 35+ and Pro 1-2 races length wise.

My last race as a 5 will be this weekend in Bakersfield! Should have moved up after Ventura, but that is another story.

5s are weird. You have such a mix of people.

1. People that just started riding and just started racing.
2. People that have been riding a while and just started racing.
3 Triathaletes. Man, these are the guys you have to watch out for.
4. Old guys like me, that raced 17yrs ago and just got back into the sport.
One of the chicken ranch guys in that race with you is a cat 1/almost-pro mountain biker, and the other guy I was telling you about kicks my butt regularly on a climbing ride that I started on Thursday evenings. They are both really strong but just don't race much. Anyway, the Chicken Ranch guy, Matt, chased after you when you went the wrong way in the circuit race to try to get you back on course but couldn't catch you, then turned around and caught the field.
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Old 06-04-09, 05:14 PM   #13
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I do have all the information of races I have been in so that's good, thank you. Minnesota just seems to lack races in my opinion. Tuesday night crits and time trials...an odd RR or circuit thrown in there every several weeks. I'm just impatient I suppose, I just want to race!
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Old 06-04-09, 06:12 PM   #14
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One of the chicken ranch guys in that race with you is a cat 1/almost-pro mountain biker, and the other guy I was telling you about kicks my butt regularly on a climbing ride that I started on Thursday evenings. They are both really strong but just don't race much. Anyway, the Chicken Ranch guy, Matt, chased after you when you went the wrong way in the circuit race to try to get you back on course but couldn't catch you, then turned around and caught the field.
LOL!!! Well, tell him thanks for thinking of me. That is sportsmanship.... too bad we didn't see him.
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Old 06-04-09, 06:43 PM   #15
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I wish many flats upon you Sandbaggers
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Old 06-05-09, 05:47 PM   #16
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This year I raced in the 5's, or 4/5 combined. Including my time trial finishes, I've had 6 podium finishes and two wins. But I have only 8 mass start races that they officially count. I've requested a 4 upgrade twice and been denied twice. They are real sticklers on upgrading and apparently they don't care how well you do.

...and yes, I still get labeled a sandbagger.
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Old 06-05-09, 05:52 PM   #17
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do two more races and then quit yer sandbaggin
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Old 06-05-09, 06:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Second Mouse View Post
The 10 mass start races need to be USACycling permitted races, right? The Tuesday Night Worlds don't count, do they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinwax View Post
Mass start, US Cycling.
Our Thursday night race isn't USAC permitted, but from what I heard counts as upgrade from 5->4. Is it up to the discretion of the local official perhaps?

I wonder if (organized) training races fall under this clause?

Quote:
1D2. Road Upgrades (a) Guidelines and Notes by Category:

5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races. Local Associations may also establish policies where upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider education clinic.

4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 qualifying races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period 40 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period** 50 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade USA Cycling may add additional requirements for upgrading


http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USAC_rulebook.pdf (pg 20)
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Old 06-05-09, 08:40 PM   #19
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I've only done 4 races, but I did 3 beginner sessions at the local velodrome, that was enough to get me to cat 4, real easy.
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Old 06-09-09, 06:10 PM   #20
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I've done several dozen TT's, if not over a hundred in my four seasons of racing. I raced a few national university championships of various types. (they're big in the UK - I could do three a week in the summer if I wanted to)

I've done ten mass-starts over four seasons, so I muck about in Cat 5 (in the US). I can set the pace at the front all race, but I've got a very Cat-5 sprint, so I go nowhere in the end.
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Old 04-16-11, 04:03 PM   #21
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Can I upgrade to cat 4 if I had 9 mass starts last year (2010) and have done 1 mass start this year (2011)? Or do all mass starts have to be within a 12 month time window? I'm curious because I'd like to upgrade early this season (2011) but have only one mass start under my belt this year, the Chantilly VA crit. thx James
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Old 04-16-11, 05:12 PM   #22
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just ten total. i know some guys that took three years to get their 10 races in (cuz they're afraid of crits)
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Old 04-16-11, 06:15 PM   #23
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No time limit on cat 5 starts. There is for upgrade points from 4 up.
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Old 04-16-11, 08:29 PM   #24
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@strouja hey, I was in that race. Where did you finish? (I was 16th)

Edit: nevermind! I know all about it =)

Last edited by kle; 04-17-11 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 04-17-11, 11:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
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This year I raced in the 5's, or 4/5 combined. Including my time trial finishes, I've had 6 podium finishes and two wins. But I have only 8 mass start races that they officially count. I've requested a 4 upgrade twice and been denied twice. They are real sticklers on upgrading and apparently they don't care how well you do.

...and yes, I still get labeled a sandbagger.
I did 6 races as a 5. Podiumed 4/6 and requested my upgrade then got it the next day. I then got 3rd in my 1st 4 race so I guess it depends on your region. Here in Utah they'll upgrade you as soon as you feel comfortable and can show your strong enough to. I know a lot of the guys I was talking to were telling me to upgrade even sooner than that because my last 2 races were the RR and Circuit of a Stage Race so a couple 5's and 4's were telling me I should have upgraded after 4 races and they would have approved it. Actually thinking of it, my buddy upgraded to a 4 after 2 races after getting 3rd in the Stage Race
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