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Old 06-05-09, 02:09 PM   #1
RudeSiggy
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Question about catching dropped riders in a road race.

So here's a question about road race rules.

There's an upcoming road race on a 10-mile loop that has 2 immense hills. The Masters 35/45+ guys are starting 5 minutes before the Cat 4s. You can guarantee that there is going to be a ton of overlap between the front of the Cat 4 field and the off-the-back master's riders. In fact, both fields will probably be demolished to tons of small groups and scattered riders.

Being optimistic, if I catch up to a Master's rider that has been dropped, can I work with him?

Let's make 2 assumptions: (a) I'm not in the lead group of the race, so I'm no longer in the rolling enclosure and (b) He's been dropped out of his rolling enclosure.

I think it's safe to say that if you're in the rolling enclosure, you shouldn't be allowed to draft the field in front of you, right? Unless... what if you go off the front and catch the master's field before your field does? What are the rules on jumping in another field?

FWIW, I'm thinking about the Lost River Classic in MABRA. With the two climbs, it's gonna be epic.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:16 PM   #2
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USAC rules say that in a road race, you may not work with riders who started in a different race than you, no matter the circumstances. The party being overtaken usually must yield.

Though you may not be called out for it if you're that far behind.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:18 PM   #3
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It's against the rules, but if you're both dropped nobody will really care.

The big no no is if you are OTF and draft someone from another field.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:18 PM   #4
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Thanks guys. Mike, can you tell me where that's in the rule book? I need a source to give a pal.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:19 PM   #5
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what if you go off the front and catch the master's field before your field does? What are the rules on jumping in another field?
I've been in this exact situation twice. Both times the field was neutralized by my lead vehicle to let me pass.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:23 PM   #6
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"3B5. Taking pace or assistance from any outside means is forbidden, including holding onto a motor vehicle or taking pace from riders in a different race that is concurrently on the same course [relegation or disqualification]"

the [] is the penalty
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Old 06-05-09, 02:33 PM   #7
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perfecto.

Although like someone said, i doubt it's enforced for riders way OTB. Refs probably think "whatever gets them across the line pedaling..."
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Old 06-05-09, 02:34 PM   #8
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is this w/respect to Lost River?
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Old 06-05-09, 02:42 PM   #9
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You can't but everyone does when they are truly out of contention.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:44 PM   #10
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Not many people are going to worry about two isolated, dropped riders from different fields. If you get dropped, then jump in that masters field that's about to catch your own race, someone may have a legitimate complaint about you.
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Old 06-05-09, 02:51 PM   #11
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is this w/respect to Lost River?
yes
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Old 06-05-09, 03:11 PM   #12
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If you're catching a slower rider, how long do you really want to work with them?
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Old 06-05-09, 03:12 PM   #13
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How about don't get dropped so this isn't an issue?
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Old 06-05-09, 03:16 PM   #14
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Thanks guys. Mike, can you tell me where that's in the rule book? I need a source to give a pal.
The officials will make you aware of the rule before the start.... dont worry
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Old 06-05-09, 03:18 PM   #15
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If you're catching a slower rider, how long do you really want to work with them?
As a hypothetical if it is a lower cat/higher cat race and the "slower" rider is the lower cat and is falling off the back to help the higher cat teammate that had a mechanical/"nature break"/"just wasn't paying attention" moment it might work.

On second thought that scenario in a typical race would require that pigs fly.
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Old 06-05-09, 06:04 PM   #16
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I know of one race where riders from different fields working together is explicitly allowed... and supposedly one year a bunch of 4s started off fast on the unmarshalled neutral rollout, caught the masters pack 5 minutes ahead, and then paced a masters teamate up to the p/1/2s. He was a serious contender for the overall and was going to be riding with the top p/1/2 riders anyhow, but that move put him 5 minutes up on them without him having to break away from them.

That's probably why it's normally not allowed.
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Old 06-05-09, 07:22 PM   #17
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How about don't get dropped so this isn't an issue?
I'm not worried about the getting dropped part since this is finally a climber's course. However there are some long gradual descents and a good bit of flat, too. I'm worried about masters guys that get dropped on the climb trying to hang onto the group of the field behind them, not knowing it could be the lead group.

And this information wasn't for the officials. My team's organizing the race, so I asked the race organizer and he didn't know. So he told me to find out for him.
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Old 06-05-09, 11:42 PM   #18
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I know of one race where riders from different fields working together is explicitly allowed... and supposedly one year a bunch of 4s started off fast on the unmarshalled neutral rollout, caught the masters pack 5 minutes ahead, and then paced a masters teamate up to the p/1/2s. He was a serious contender for the overall and was going to be riding with the top p/1/2 riders anyhow, but that move put him 5 minutes up on them without him having to break away from them.

That's probably why it's normally not allowed.
Lindsay at EC a few years ago?
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Old 06-06-09, 04:13 AM   #19
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http://www.usacycling.org/forms/RdTrkCx_rulebook.pdf
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Old 06-06-09, 06:34 AM   #20
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you're like the librarian who, when asked where a particular book is located, tells the kid "The car rack is over there. You know dewey decimal, right?"
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Old 06-06-09, 07:00 AM   #21
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sorry, thought he asked for the rule book
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Old 06-06-09, 08:02 AM   #22
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sorry, thought he asked for the rule book
i'm just cracking a bad joke at your expense, don't mind me
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Old 06-06-09, 08:08 AM   #23
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Similar non-US experience from last weekend:

I start in the "B" group on a local 66 km RR. On the way back with about 10 km to go I suddenly notice that the first 3 riders have a large gap and are pulling away. I sprint past the back and bridge at 50+ km/h. As I get closer to the break I notice that the (ridiculous) pace is being set by an "A" category rider (holder of a couple of local TT records) who was dropped by his pack.

I didn't realize that I also towed up another rider, who is an LBS owner and sponsor of the race. I wasn't happy about the increased pace, but figure with 10 km to go the 5 of us would stay away for sure. The LBS owner had other ideas and blasted the A category rider who dropped off the back of our pack.

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Old 06-06-09, 08:11 AM   #24
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so did you stay away?
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Old 06-06-09, 08:29 AM   #25
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Of course not, with our locomotive gone everyone sat up and waited for the sprint, lol.

Lost that by half a wheel (which I'm Ok with )

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