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  1. #1
    Senior Member RudeSiggy's Avatar
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    Question about catching dropped riders in a road race.

    So here's a question about road race rules.

    There's an upcoming road race on a 10-mile loop that has 2 immense hills. The Masters 35/45+ guys are starting 5 minutes before the Cat 4s. You can guarantee that there is going to be a ton of overlap between the front of the Cat 4 field and the off-the-back master's riders. In fact, both fields will probably be demolished to tons of small groups and scattered riders.

    Being optimistic, if I catch up to a Master's rider that has been dropped, can I work with him?

    Let's make 2 assumptions: (a) I'm not in the lead group of the race, so I'm no longer in the rolling enclosure and (b) He's been dropped out of his rolling enclosure.

    I think it's safe to say that if you're in the rolling enclosure, you shouldn't be allowed to draft the field in front of you, right? Unless... what if you go off the front and catch the master's field before your field does? What are the rules on jumping in another field?

    FWIW, I'm thinking about the Lost River Classic in MABRA. With the two climbs, it's gonna be epic.
    Currently riding on a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 with SRAM Red and either Roval Fusee SL or MAVIC Carbone SL wheels. Check out my blog: http://sigberto.blogspot.com and give Gamjams some love, too.

  2. #2
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    USAC rules say that in a road race, you may not work with riders who started in a different race than you, no matter the circumstances. The party being overtaken usually must yield.

    Though you may not be called out for it if you're that far behind.

  3. #3
    Killing Rabbits
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    It's against the rules, but if you're both dropped nobody will really care.

    The big no no is if you are OTF and draft someone from another field.

  4. #4
    Senior Member RudeSiggy's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Mike, can you tell me where that's in the rule book? I need a source to give a pal.
    Currently riding on a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 with SRAM Red and either Roval Fusee SL or MAVIC Carbone SL wheels. Check out my blog: http://sigberto.blogspot.com and give Gamjams some love, too.

  5. #5
    half man - half sheep Doggus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RudeSiggy View Post
    what if you go off the front and catch the master's field before your field does? What are the rules on jumping in another field?
    I've been in this exact situation twice. Both times the field was neutralized by my lead vehicle to let me pass.

  6. #6
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    "3B5. Taking pace or assistance from any outside means is forbidden, including holding onto a motor vehicle or taking pace from riders in a different race that is concurrently on the same course [relegation or disqualification]"

    the [] is the penalty

  7. #7
    Senior Member RudeSiggy's Avatar
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    perfecto.

    Although like someone said, i doubt it's enforced for riders way OTB. Refs probably think "whatever gets them across the line pedaling..."
    Currently riding on a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 with SRAM Red and either Roval Fusee SL or MAVIC Carbone SL wheels. Check out my blog: http://sigberto.blogspot.com and give Gamjams some love, too.

  8. #8
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    is this w/respect to Lost River?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  9. #9
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    You can't but everyone does when they are truly out of contention.

  10. #10
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    Not many people are going to worry about two isolated, dropped riders from different fields. If you get dropped, then jump in that masters field that's about to catch your own race, someone may have a legitimate complaint about you.

  11. #11
    Senior Member RudeSiggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    is this w/respect to Lost River?
    yes
    Currently riding on a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 with SRAM Red and either Roval Fusee SL or MAVIC Carbone SL wheels. Check out my blog: http://sigberto.blogspot.com and give Gamjams some love, too.

  12. #12
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    If you're catching a slower rider, how long do you really want to work with them?

  13. #13
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    How about don't get dropped so this isn't an issue?
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RudeSiggy View Post
    Thanks guys. Mike, can you tell me where that's in the rule book? I need a source to give a pal.
    The officials will make you aware of the rule before the start.... dont worry
    Please remember that all statements unless quoted, are strictly my opinion of what happened. That there are as many opinions as there are spectators attending. I just choose to publish mine on this forum. And would NEVER intend to purposely hurt or discredit any other cyclist.... With that said... HTFU!

  15. #15
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
    If you're catching a slower rider, how long do you really want to work with them?
    As a hypothetical if it is a lower cat/higher cat race and the "slower" rider is the lower cat and is falling off the back to help the higher cat teammate that had a mechanical/"nature break"/"just wasn't paying attention" moment it might work.

    On second thought that scenario in a typical race would require that pigs fly.
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  16. #16
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    I know of one race where riders from different fields working together is explicitly allowed... and supposedly one year a bunch of 4s started off fast on the unmarshalled neutral rollout, caught the masters pack 5 minutes ahead, and then paced a masters teamate up to the p/1/2s. He was a serious contender for the overall and was going to be riding with the top p/1/2 riders anyhow, but that move put him 5 minutes up on them without him having to break away from them.

    That's probably why it's normally not allowed.

  17. #17
    Senior Member RudeSiggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
    How about don't get dropped so this isn't an issue?
    I'm not worried about the getting dropped part since this is finally a climber's course. However there are some long gradual descents and a good bit of flat, too. I'm worried about masters guys that get dropped on the climb trying to hang onto the group of the field behind them, not knowing it could be the lead group.

    And this information wasn't for the officials. My team's organizing the race, so I asked the race organizer and he didn't know. So he told me to find out for him.
    Currently riding on a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL3 with SRAM Red and either Roval Fusee SL or MAVIC Carbone SL wheels. Check out my blog: http://sigberto.blogspot.com and give Gamjams some love, too.

  18. #18
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    I know of one race where riders from different fields working together is explicitly allowed... and supposedly one year a bunch of 4s started off fast on the unmarshalled neutral rollout, caught the masters pack 5 minutes ahead, and then paced a masters teamate up to the p/1/2s. He was a serious contender for the overall and was going to be riding with the top p/1/2 riders anyhow, but that move put him 5 minutes up on them without him having to break away from them.

    That's probably why it's normally not allowed.
    Lindsay at EC a few years ago?

  19. #19
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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  20. #20
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    you're like the librarian who, when asked where a particular book is located, tells the kid "The car rack is over there. You know dewey decimal, right?"
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  21. #21
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    sorry, thought he asked for the rule book

  22. #22
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    sorry, thought he asked for the rule book
    i'm just cracking a bad joke at your expense, don't mind me
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  23. #23
    Senior Member kaNUK's Avatar
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    Similar non-US experience from last weekend:

    I start in the "B" group on a local 66 km RR. On the way back with about 10 km to go I suddenly notice that the first 3 riders have a large gap and are pulling away. I sprint past the back and bridge at 50+ km/h. As I get closer to the break I notice that the (ridiculous) pace is being set by an "A" category rider (holder of a couple of local TT records) who was dropped by his pack.

    I didn't realize that I also towed up another rider, who is an LBS owner and sponsor of the race. I wasn't happy about the increased pace, but figure with 10 km to go the 5 of us would stay away for sure. The LBS owner had other ideas and blasted the A category rider who dropped off the back of our pack.

    kaNUK

  24. #24
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    so did you stay away?

  25. #25
    Senior Member kaNUK's Avatar
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    Of course not, with our locomotive gone everyone sat up and waited for the sprint, lol.

    Lost that by half a wheel (which I'm Ok with )

    kaNUK

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