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  1. #1
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    Racing: an honorable sporting event, or a back-alley knife fight?

    Events of the weekend have prompted discussion about the "right" way to view a race.

    To wit: are there more honorable ways to win than others? Or is it simply, first wheel across the line and as long as you stay within the rules, a win is a win?

    Example: is a rider who sits in and sprints, less of a deserving winner than one who attacks and attacks and bridges and chases then wins? Or is the concept of "deserving" entirely irrelevant?
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  2. #2
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  3. #3
    . botto's Avatar
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    honorable isn't the word i would chose. elegant, courageous, daring, classy... are more apt.

  4. #4
    half man - half sheep Doggus's Avatar
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    I want to know what all this drama in the Cat4 race is all about (Andy's TXBRA) comments. What happened once I was shown the back door?

  5. #5
    Cat 4 J.Lockdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    Or is the concept of "deserving" entirely irrelevant?
    Its irrelevant in my option. I dont think anyone in the field really cares if a guy that pulls the whole race deserves to win. Yeah it would be nice to see him win cause he did a lot of the work up front, but he decided to do that, and its not going to stop anyone else in the field from chasing him on the final sprint. It was his decision to do the work and he should know theres someone right on his wheel along for the ride. Its a race, first one that cross's the lines within the rules wins.
    Last edited by J.Lockdown; 06-22-09 at 09:45 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    honorable isn't the word i would chose. elegant, courageous, daring, classy... are more apt.
    Cheeky.... you left out cheeky
    Please remember that all statements unless quoted, are strictly my opinion of what happened. That there are as many opinions as there are spectators attending. I just choose to publish mine on this forum. And would NEVER intend to purposely hurt or discredit any other cyclist.... With that said... HTFU!

  7. #7
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Where I'm from if you pull the whole way and the lose you're called stupid.

  8. #8
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Where I'm from if you pull the whole way and the lose you're called stupid.
    some would say " stoopid" too.
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  9. #9
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    Where I'm from if you pull the whole way and the lose you're called stupid.
    or sled dog....Mush, Doggie!Mush!!!!

  10. #10
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggus View Post
    I want to know what all this drama in the Cat4 race is all about (Andy's TXBRA) comments. What happened once I was shown the back door?
    yeah I dunno.. it seemed like a routine sprint to me. all I can think was, there was one guy who got chopped a bit, and I said a bad word after I got passed at the line.

    the top 4 guys were pretty close, maybe he got excited about that.
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    Last edited by Creakyknees; 06-22-09 at 09:58 AM.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    Events of the weekend have prompted discussion about the "right" way to view a race.

    To wit: are there more honorable ways to win than others? Or is it simply, first wheel across the line and as long as you stay within the rules, a win is a win?

    Example: is a rider who sits in and sprints, less of a deserving winner than one who attacks and attacks and bridges and chases then wins? Or is the concept of "deserving" entirely irrelevant?
    No, there are not more honorable ways to win, at least within major limits. I really don't like the idea because it's pretty much used to intentionally devalue the efforts and skills of certain kinds of riders. What makes cycling so great is that there are so many different ways to win a race - TT types who call sprinters and sprinting tactics dishonorable are, IMO, selfish and lacking in appreciation for the subtleties and nuance of the sport. If cycling were about brute strength, it would be boring and there would be a lot fewer competitors. Winning solo requires enormous strength, winning from a break requires strength and the savvy to recognize your strengths and how to use them against your breakaway companions, winning from a field sprint requires clever tactics, good positioning, a good turn of speed and near-perfect timing. These are all worthy ways to win.

    By the way, this goes both ways - sprinters who think that breakaways and riders who have the strength to win solo shouldn't be allowed are jerks. But how often does this happen? Mostly, the anger seems to come from riders who think that having a bigger aerobic engine and working like a dog entitles them to a win or high placing. But cycling is beautiful because you are not entitled to anything. You win by crossing the line first. If you can't do that, then that's it. That's cycling. Hey, maybe I'm biased - I'm a criterium and circuit racer by disposition - but I recognize that bias.

    And for what it's worth, that doesn't mean that I support boring races. Races won in field sprints or from breaks can both be incredibly boring, or they can be active and exciting, depending upon how they are raced, what tactics are used, etc. I would rather my races be exciting, but when you come right down to it, that's secondary. People want to win, and they're going to do whatever they think gives them the best chance of winning. They might guess wrong, especially if they are inexperienced, but that's how it goes.

  12. #12
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    bike racing does not care who took second

  13. #13
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    is it dishonorable to drop heavy guys on hills because they have a higher FTP?

  14. #14
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    bike racing is an interesting sport. while maybe no one cares who took 2nd, I can think of several examples of races where no one can remember (interpret to no one cares) who won, but everyone remembers who was off the front for a big % of the race or who "turned the screws" and animiated the race.

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    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    bike racing does not care who took second
    I think it does for some.


  16. #16
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    is it dishonorable to drop heavy guys on hills because they have a higher FTP?
    very dishonorable.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  17. #17
    Senior Member marsh283's Avatar
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    knife fight for me, unless its with teammates

  18. #18
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    I think it does for some.


    Poulidor, the ultimate "first loser".
    At least he won on occasion too.
    Nice pic.

  19. #19
    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post









    Why do you hate horses?

  20. #20
    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    yeah I dunno.. it seemed like a routine sprint to me. all I can think was, there was one guy who got chopped a bit, and I said a bad word after I got passed at the line.

    the top 4 guys were pretty close, maybe he got excited about that.
    I think it was more about the conditions and how they really fought it out till the end...at leat that's what I took away from Andy's comments...

  21. #21
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    Meh, it's just drama.

    If you win without cheating, you won. One method is tactically superior, the other is brute strength.
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    It looks silly when you have quotes from other forum members in your signature. Nobody on this forum is that funny.
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    Why am I in your signature.

  22. #22
    . botto's Avatar
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    whatever. while the following is more about mortals, such as ourselves, it pretty much covers my opinion about racers in general:

    i will always have more respect for the racer who got away in a break and won.

    i will never have respect for the anonymous racers, who you never see on the front until the final 200 meters.

  23. #23
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    whatever. while the following is more about mortals, such as ourselves, it pretty much covers my opinion about racers in general:

    i will always have more respect for the racer who got away in a break and won.

    i will never have respect for the anonymous racers, who you never see on the front until the final 200 meters.
    Even if the guy who won, in the break, was never "on the front until the final 200 meters"?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  24. #24
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    Even if the guy who won, in the break, was never "on the front until the final 200 meters"?
    yes.

  25. #25
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    i will never have respect for the anonymous racers, who you never see on the front until the final 200 meters.
    Aaahhh, the ol' Botto/Cavendish uppercut.

    I've got no issue with anyone that can win the field sprint, that sat in all day.
    I've got issues with all those guys that follow incessantly hoping for a top10 in a field sprint.
    It's like, who cares.

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