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  1. #1
    Senior Member spinwax's Avatar
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    Tour TTT Question.

    At least 5 riders have to finish the course to get a time. What happens if there is a terrible crash and only 4 or less riders are able to complete the TTT? Is the team disqualified? Has anything similar to this ever happened?

    I know it is highly unlikely, but weirder things have happened. With all the guys crashing yesterday during the TTT, it got me thinking. I felt terrible for the Bbox guys.
    Last edited by spinwax; 07-08-09 at 04:13 PM.

  2. #2
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Then the 4th guy would count.

  3. #3
    Senior Member spinwax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    Then the 4th guy would count.

    That's it huh? Pretty simple. The way they make it sound; 5 have to finish.

    Thanks for the reply.

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    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    No rule is ever solid in the tour. Take the time cut for example. Some days if the autobus isn't going to make it then they push the cut back a little.
    Last edited by jrennie; 07-09-09 at 10:00 AM.

  5. #5
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    I know it's not the Tour, but in our conference championships, Navy went out all guns blazing. They deliberately had one out of the four burn himself out at the beginning, then the other three kept going until one of them had a puncture. They then had to drop out (needed three to finish) and were to be seen gnashing their teeth at the road side....

  6. #6
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinwax View Post
    That's it huh? Pretty simple. The way they make it sound; 5 have to finish.

    Thanks for the reply.

    yes, but if your team only has 4 left in the race, the organizer would not hold that against you, it's a disadvantage

    this has never happened that I know of and doubt it ever will, unless they throw the TTT in the last week, which has the same chance as pigs flying

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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    Then the 4th guy would count.
    What is the basis for this. Recall 2006 when Astana-Wurth were not allowed to start the Tour because they only had six riders.

  8. #8
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    What is the basis for this.


    Because I'm a know-it-all.

    Seriously, if you started the Tour with all your guys and somehow are down to only 4 riders because of crashes and etc, then no commissaire is going to not allow your 4th rider to count in the TTT. As I said before the TTT is early exactly for these reasons, so don't expect to ever see a team with less than 5 riders on that day.

    Totally different from not having enough riders to start the whole tour.

  9. #9
    ɹǝʇsɯıʇ
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    What is the basis for this. Recall 2006 when Astana-Wurth were not allowed to start the Tour because they only had six riders.
    Astana had 9 guys scheduled to start the 2006 Tour. A teams needs at least 6 to start. 5 of them got DQed because of doping, leaving only 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    Because I'm a know-it-all.
    In other words no source at all. I can't imagine a commissaire not taking a team with only 4 riders who finish a TTT and baking them a cake and giving them all tickets to Disneyland, but that's just me. The rules say you need five to finish, there's precedence for not allowing a team to ride with too few members, so is there any basis in the rules or history to say a team would have it's time taken after the fourth rider or are you just making this up as you go along?

  11. #11
    ɹǝʇsɯıʇ
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    Straight from the rule book:

    The standings for the trial are based on the time recorded, for each of the teams, by the competitor who crosses
    the finishing line in 5th position (to a level of precision of 1/100th of a second).

    An identical finishing time is recorded for all team members arriving at the same time, or before.

    In the overall individual standings, the actual times are carried over for each competitor as follows:
    - The time of the 5th team member to finish from each team for competitors awarded this time in accordance with the rule above.
    - The actual time for competitors who finish after the 5th team member.

    However, competitors who finish outside the cut-off times stipulated by the rules (coefficient 6) are eliminated.

    For the overall team standings, the actual time of the 5th team member to finish is taken into account.

    In the case where a team no longer has at least 5 competitors, those remaining in the race are obliged to finish the course within the cut-off time set out in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time taken into account for the overall team standings is therefore the time of the last competitor to finish from this team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timster View Post
    Straight from the rule book: ...
    Thanks.

  13. #13
    Killing Rabbits
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    Good Job

  14. #14
    Senior Member spinwax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timster View Post
    Straight from the rule book:

    The standings for the trial are based on the time recorded, for each of the teams, by the competitor who crosses
    the finishing line in 5th position (to a level of precision of 1/100th of a second).

    An identical finishing time is recorded for all team members arriving at the same time, or before.

    In the overall individual standings, the actual times are carried over for each competitor as follows:
    - The time of the 5th team member to finish from each team for competitors awarded this time in accordance with the rule above.
    - The actual time for competitors who finish after the 5th team member.

    However, competitors who finish outside the cut-off times stipulated by the rules (coefficient 6) are eliminated.

    For the overall team standings, the actual time of the 5th team member to finish is taken into account.

    In the case where a team no longer has at least 5 competitors, those remaining in the race are obliged to finish the course within the cut-off time set out in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time taken into account for the overall team standings is therefore the time of the last competitor to finish from this team.

    Interesting. Thanks.

    So if it were to happen.... A team goes down in crash. 5 of the 9 riders break bones or whatever and can't finish. The rest of the team is pretty much SOL and go home? That would be wild to see but hopefully that never happens.

  15. #15
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinwax View Post
    Interesting. Thanks.

    So if it were to happen.... A team goes down in crash. 5 of the 9 riders break bones or whatever and can't finish. The rest of the team is pretty much SOL and go home? That would be wild to see but hopefully that never happens.

    read it again, you seem to be confused

  16. #16
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinwax View Post
    Interesting. Thanks.

    So if it were to happen.... A team goes down in crash. 5 of the 9 riders break bones or whatever and can't finish. The rest of the team is pretty much SOL and go home? That would be wild to see but hopefully that never happens.
    You can lead a horse to water. The answer is right in front of your eyes. You're almost there.
    Bring the pain.

  17. #17
    Senior Member spinwax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recursive View Post
    You can lead a horse to water. The answer is right in front of your eyes. You're almost there.
    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    read it again, you seem to be confused
    LOL, sorry, I got it. I am at work and shouldn't be on the net!! I scanned it too quickly.


    Thanks for the info.

  18. #18
    No matches Flatballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    read it again, you seem to be confused
    There are two different scenarios in my mind; one is clear from the rules, one is not.

    If you START the TTT with less than 5, then the time is the last rider to finish.

    What happens if you start the TTT with more than 5, but due to wrecks or whatever, end up with less than 5 able to finish? What keeps riders from faking (other than pride and sportsmanship, of course) mechanicals/injuries as they drop off the pace after burning out, so that only 3 or something could finish faster?

  19. #19
    Senior Member spinwax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
    There are two different scenarios in my mind; one is clear from the rules, one is not.

    If you START the TTT with less than 5, then the time is the last rider to finish.

    What happens if you start the TTT with more than 5, but due to wrecks or whatever, end up with less than 5 able to finish? What keeps riders from faking (other than pride and sportsmanship, of course) mechanicals/injuries as they drop off the pace after burning out, so that only 3 or something could finish faster?
    If those riders drop out, they are out for good. A team wants to keep as many of their riders on the squad as possible. It would be their own demise to dismiss riders that early in the race and have to do another 18+ days with only 2-4 riders.

  20. #20
    ɹǝʇsɯıʇ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
    There are two different scenarios in my mind; one is clear from the rules, one is not.

    If you START the TTT with less than 5, then the time is the last rider to finish.

    What happens if you start the TTT with more than 5, but due to wrecks or whatever, end up with less than 5 able to finish? What keeps riders from faking (other than pride and sportsmanship, of course) mechanicals/injuries as they drop off the pace after burning out, so that only 3 or something could finish faster?
    The rules just say "in the case where a team no longer has at least 5 competitors"

    I don't think it matters when or why the other riders drop out. They can fake a mechanical/injury, but then they are out of the tour for good.

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