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Old 07-10-09, 05:10 PM   #1
brian669
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categories? licenses?

sorry if this has been stickied somewhere or been talked about before, but i couldn't find it and i didn't really understand the usac site.

i am looking at doing my first road race in late august and the registration says it is cat 5. it's got ages 19-34 and then 35-49 all under the listing of "men's cat 5 public race". towards the bottom of the page there's the $10 one day race license that every race has unless you've got the annual thing. i have one for triathlon but not cycling, but it's the same deal in tri's. any how, my questions are

1 - is the field split between those 2 age groups? if not why would they list them seperately? they don't list the prizes seperately so why wouldn't they just say men's 19-49? or is it just one of those things?!

2- more importantly... can anybody race in this race? the usac site says cat 5 must have 10 mass start races or a rider education clinic. i am fairly certain guys i know just do this race every year and don't do other races. plus i know i've seen all kinds of people doing it in the past including people on mtb's and whatnot who def wouldn't have 10 races in.

bottom line, can i do this race? i appreciate the info a lot. this is all new to me and a lot of it is confusing to me.
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Old 07-10-09, 05:22 PM   #2
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Thater?
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Old 07-10-09, 05:33 PM   #3
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sorry if this has been stickied somewhere or been talked about before, but i couldn't find it and i didn't really understand the usac site.

i am looking at doing my first road race in late august and the registration says it is cat 5. it's got ages 19-34 and then 35-49 all under the listing of "men's cat 5 public race". towards the bottom of the page there's the $10 one day race license that every race has unless you've got the annual thing. i have one for triathlon but not cycling, but it's the same deal in tri's. any how, my questions are

1 - is the field split between those 2 age groups? if not why would they list them seperately? they don't list the prizes seperately so why wouldn't they just say men's 19-49? or is it just one of those things?!

2- more importantly... can anybody race in this race? the usac site says cat 5 must have 10 mass start races or a rider education clinic. i am fairly certain guys i know just do this race every year and don't do other races. plus i know i've seen all kinds of people doing it in the past including people on mtb's and whatnot who def wouldn't have 10 races in.

bottom line, can i do this race? i appreciate the info a lot. this is all new to me and a lot of it is confusing to me.
1 - I am not sure why they would put those age groups for Cat 5 seems somewhat odd.

2 - If they are classified as Cat 5 or purchase a 1 day license then they can race any Cat 5. Along with that every rider starts in Cat 5 (all men, women start in 4) and the 10 mass start is talking about the upgrade to Cat 4. You will find all sorts of riders in Cat 5 and things will sort their selves out in the race.

Bottom line: You can race if you want to.

Last edited by J.Lockdown; 07-10-09 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 07-10-09, 05:40 PM   #4
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if it's Thater they only allow one-day licenses in the citizen's 5 races. If you have an annual license you are required to race in the 4/5 race (which will be faster by far). And if it is Thater....

I strongly recommend AGAINST it being your first race. Come and do some thursday night races first.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:13 AM   #5
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what thursday night races?

thanks for the info. i thought it was that you had to have 10 mass starts to get cat 5 which made no sense at all.

my time for the cayuga triathlon, which is predominantly a big climb, is below what most of these guys pulled in last years thater at the same distance. granted there aren't any big turns and it's not exactly a mass start on the bike i think i would be fine. i have thursday off next week though, so maybe i'll do a race if there's one that night.
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Old 07-11-09, 09:27 AM   #6
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actually, what thursday race do you recommend? i just looked through the club calendar and saw the courses. you mentioned before you don't need to be a member to come, right? i plan on joining the club for 2010 and doing the tt's as often as possible.
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Old 07-11-09, 09:28 AM   #7
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I wish I could do thater this year. Instead I will be doing a lovely recon ride for GMSR. Essentially picking the spots where I will blow up and suffer greatly. Should be fun :-P

Thater is a great race though, at the very least head down and check out the pro field.
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Old 07-11-09, 09:49 AM   #8
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that looks like a tough race. a nice one though.
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Old 07-11-09, 10:37 AM   #9
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my time for the cayuga triathlon, which is predominantly a big climb, is below what most of these guys pulled in last years thater at the same distance. granted there aren't any big turns and it's not exactly a mass start on the bike i think i would be fine. i have thursday off next week though, so maybe i'll do a race if there's one that night.
Not to sound like an arrogant bike racer know-it-all...but

1. Forget the notion that your time in a triathlon has any correlation to a criterium...the similarities end with the fact that the bicycles have two wheels and a chain...

2. There will be plenty of people without much group riding experience...but being comfortable going into a corner at 35mph in tight quarters takes a bit of practice...so i would suggest a few group rides then progress to club races...etc.

3. It's a cat 5 race...it's not a big deal to go into it a bit unprepared as long as you go into knowing it'll be a learning experience...
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Old 07-11-09, 10:48 AM   #10
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right, i understand that. i'm just saying that as far as pace goes, i am going up a 7% grade at what these guys are doing a predominantly flat course in. the packs and corners are where i need to get more time in for sure. but for 17 bucks, i just want to see what it's all about.
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Old 07-11-09, 11:08 AM   #11
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right, i understand that. i'm just saying that as far as pace goes, i am going up a 7% grade at what these guys are doing a predominantly flat course in. the packs and corners are where i need to get more time in for sure. but for 17 bucks, i just want to see what it's all about.
Why aren't you in France right now, leading the tour by 30 minutes? If you can go up 7% grades at anything close to 20 mph (probable average for a Cat5 crit), for more than 30 seconds at a time, you're quite possibly the strongest rider in the world.
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Old 07-11-09, 11:20 AM   #12
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right, i understand that. i'm just saying that as far as pace goes, i am going up a 7% grade at what these guys are doing a predominantly flat course in. the packs and corners are where i need to get more time in for sure. but for 17 bucks, i just want to see what it's all about.
Well...not really. A tt or triathlon is a steady state effort...for example ride 20 miles in an hour, not hard right? but then try 30 min at 30mph and 30 min at 10 mph. An extreme example but that tends to be the issue when people with triathlon/duathlon experience jump into a crit or road race. At thater it'll go ballistic from start...then ungodly slow...guys will kill it up the climb every lap...but then sit up... repeat until the sprint. Occasionally a break will stick but it's not likely...
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Old 07-11-09, 04:50 PM   #13
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actually, what thursday race do you recommend? i just looked through the club calendar and saw the courses. you mentioned before you don't need to be a member to come, right? i plan on joining the club for 2010 and doing the tt's as often as possible.

you can ride your first race as a guest, but after that you have to join. It's cheap anyway.

This thursday...6:30pm race start at Singer-Link (Kirkwood Industrial Park) We park at the Universal Instruments lot. If you are new to racing you should race with the B group. Get used to pacelines and working in close quarters.

I recommend Singer for two reasons. It's a criterium without corners (circuit race) and it has a climb on every lap very similar to that of Thater. We also do it twice a month.
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Old 07-11-09, 06:44 PM   #14
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right, i understand that. i'm just saying that as far as pace goes, i am going up a 7% grade at what these guys are doing a predominantly flat course in. the packs and corners are where i need to get more time in for sure. but for 17 bucks, i just want to see what it's all about.


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It's a criterium without corners (circuit race)
I don't think that's what circuit race usually means...
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Old 07-11-09, 06:50 PM   #15
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3D. Criterium
3D1. A criterium is a circuit race held on a small course
entirely closed to traffic. The length of the course is between
800 m and 5 km. The minimum width throughout the course
should be 7 m.


it is this. no corners. although we cannot close it to traffic for thursday nights, traffic is seldom much of an issue in an industrial park in the evening.
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Old 07-11-09, 06:53 PM   #16
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btw we have a yellow line rule.
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Old 07-11-09, 06:54 PM   #17
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3D. Criterium
3D1. A criterium is a circuit race held on a small course
entirely closed to traffic. The length of the course is between
800 m and 5 km. The minimum width throughout the course
should be 7 m.


it is this. no corners. although we cannot close it to traffic for thursday nights, traffic is seldom much of an issue in an industrial park in the evening.
I don't see anything about corners in that.
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Old 07-11-09, 06:56 PM   #18
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whatever.

one of us is helpful.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:14 PM   #19
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whatever.

one of us is helpful.
Um, ok? I'm just saying that I've never seen "a crit without corners" to be the definition of a circuit race. I've always understood a crit to be a very short circuit race, which is consistent with what you posted. Races around here that are called "circuit races" are usually similar to crits but on courses that are several miles and crit courses are around a mile or less.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:25 PM   #20
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It's not part of the definition; rather, it's usually a result of the definition.

Since circuit races are longer laps, they still have a few corners (because it's a loop), but they're spread out over a longer lap.

I think that's what grumpy is saying.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:38 PM   #21
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it's just a 1.6 mile loop.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:45 PM   #22
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It's not part of the definition; rather, it's usually a result of the definition.

Since circuit races are longer laps, they still have a few corners (because it's a loop), but they're spread out over a longer lap.

I think that's what grumpy is saying.
I read it as saying that a circuit race is a crit without corners. If that's not what he meant then I apologize for the confusion.
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Old 07-11-09, 07:55 PM   #23
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I'm just trying to help the guy. It is what it is. no worries.
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