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Old 07-10-09, 08:44 PM   #1
Varns269
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Cat 4/5 races

Thinking about doing some races and I would be a beginner. How fast is the pace in most cat 4/5 races?

Thanks
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Old 07-10-09, 08:46 PM   #2
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take a look at Botto's thread stickied in the RR forum.
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Old 07-10-09, 08:47 PM   #3
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Don't worry about it, just go race.

This should probably be in the racing forum too.
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Old 07-10-09, 08:48 PM   #4
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Racing is an entirely different level of fast from what most people have experienced. The only way to really find out is to put on a number and toe the line.

Good luck.
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Old 07-10-09, 08:54 PM   #5
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Ya sorry this probably should be in the racing forum.
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Old 07-10-09, 08:56 PM   #6
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Ya probably
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Old 07-10-09, 08:59 PM   #7
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Have group rides round you? Go find a couple A pace and when you can pull for half of it then you are good to go......and when I say pull I mean pull at 33mph for 20 miles+





d[-_-]b
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Old 07-10-09, 09:01 PM   #8
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~23-24 mph
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Old 07-11-09, 01:00 AM   #9
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^
+1
Don't worry how fast, worry about staying in the pack. Start in the last row and hang on. Do not do like I did in my first race in May and get on the front row, lead the first lap and then completely BLOW! Got dropped and then lapped 2 times. 2nd race I stayed with the pack 6-7 laps and by the end was a half lap down, ok better. 3rd race stayed in the whole time, finished in the about 60%, last time race 4 finished in the middle.

STAY in the pack, hang on, get used to being in there, learn who some solid riders are that you can follow until you get used to this sheight!
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Old 07-11-09, 09:30 AM   #10
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I got dropped in one and averaged 22+ mph without a draft.
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Old 07-11-09, 10:33 AM   #11
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It depends on the type of race, the course, weather conditions, other racers, etc. Try to find a training race for beginners before jumping into a cat 4/5 race. 4/5 races can have a huge range of abilities and experience.

And have fun.
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Old 07-11-09, 10:42 AM   #12
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^^^

the race i'm talking about in my other post in this section is cat 5. the average time for last years first place winner was just over 49:00 for 15 miles. his avg mile was around 3:18. that's not a very hard pace at all. of course this race doesn't have any major climbs or anything, it's pretty basic. i would find one that you think you can keep up with though.
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Old 07-11-09, 10:48 AM   #13
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Don't worry about the pace. The hardest part is toeing the line. Just get out there and have fun.

And most importantly: Hold you line.
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Old 07-11-09, 10:56 AM   #14
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Here in Florida there is a Park called Brian Piccolo ... every Sunday and some weeks days they have races,the average depends of course on the cat you are in,but cat 3-4 they race for 45 minutes plus 3 laps and the average is a bit over 25 mph..Cat 1-2 they race at about 27-28 mph...



http://www.broward.org/parks/bp.htm
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Old 07-11-09, 12:25 PM   #15
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It's not the "average" that's the bother. It's the maximum speeds.

For a cat5 race, I wouldn't be surprised to see surges of 28-30 and other periods at 18.

But as Sub said, the hardest part is pining the number on and toeing the line. Just do it.
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Old 07-11-09, 12:37 PM   #16
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well i did my first race today, was a cat5 crit race. I knew being dropped was inevitable so I got in the pack and held my own for about 60-70% of the race. It was fun, fast, and exhilarating. Then I got dropped like a bad habit. But boy did I enjoy myself.

Ive heard people say to ride with fast groups and what not, and i did... but there was nothing like racing and i loved it. Its towards the end of the season around here and I cant wait to train for next spring and see the improvement.

good luck and just do it man
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Old 07-13-09, 02:39 PM   #17
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Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.
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Old 07-13-09, 02:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawntp View Post
I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.
I'm an inch shorter and a pound heavier. Go race.
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Old 07-13-09, 02:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by VA_Esquire View Post
Have group rides round you? Go find a couple A pace and when you can pull for half of it then you are good to go......and when I say pull I mean pull at 33mph for 20 miles+





d[-_-]b
Ok, tough guy. By the time you can do that, you can solo away from the front of a 4/5 race.
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Old 07-13-09, 02:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by shawntp View Post
Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.
You're overthinking it. You could be 10 lbs heavier, lighter....15% body fat....5% body fat. Regardless, you're not going to be any good without any experience.

Go in with no expectations. If you've gotten used to pack riding, then you're ready.
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Old 07-13-09, 02:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by PipinFan View Post
Here in Florida there is a Park called Brian Piccolo ... every Sunday and some weeks days they have races,the average depends of course on the cat you are in,but cat 3-4 they race for 45 minutes plus 3 laps and the average is a bit over 25 mph..Cat 1-2 they race at about 27-28 mph...



ht tp://www.broward.org/parks/bp.htm
are they really that slow?
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Old 07-13-09, 02:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawntp View Post
Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.
You're plenty fit enough. Go race.
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Old 07-13-09, 03:49 PM   #23
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Ok, tough guy. By the time you can do that, you can solo away from the front of a 4/5 race.
This forum doesnt have a sarcasm smiley or I would of put it in there.
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Old 07-13-09, 04:03 PM   #24
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This forum doesnt have a sarcasm smiley or I would of put it in there.
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Old 07-13-09, 07:50 PM   #25
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When I came back to racing this year after 15 years away, the thing that took the longest was getting comfortable in the pack again. Even on group rides of about 20 riders, you don't get the feeling of being "encased" inside the pack like you do in an actual race situation. Speed wasn't nearly the issue as the sort of clausterphobia of being surrounded by so many people while going 25 or 30 mph.

The nice thing about starting young when I originally raced was that the number of racers was so small in the intermediate and junior groups that you really did build your experience riding in a pack so that it didn't seem all that big a deal when I went over to the regular categories.

If you can calm yourself down and remain in control, there shouldn't be all that many issues. If you get spit out the back, its just a learning experience.
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