Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-13-09, 12:06 PM   #1
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
diagnose my weakness

I suck at steep climbs. regardless of length. when the grade goes over double digits, I'm a mess. doesnt matter if I'm in a little gear or a bigger gear, I dont get power to the pedals.

case in point, yesterday race. it was not a hard race at all, in fact, I thought about 8 miles of the 8.6 mile loop to be really easy. My problem was about a 1K mile section that was a steep hill, that started (according to mapmyride) about 12% for a couple hundred meters, up to 20% for a small section, down to 6% then back up to about 14% at the top. I would struggle through the steepest stuff, but get popped at the 6% into 14% transition (last 200M of the climb). The 1st 3 times through I survived, 4th time I got popped, worked at FTP for about 5 miles to catch the pack, only to get popped for good next time up the hill.

How do I diagnose whether the issue of getting power to the pedals is one mitigated through training more FTP or do I need to incorporate more AWC into my programme?

without writing a book, I focus mostly on 100% - 120% FTP work during training, and let the group rides and racing take care of the rest. assume that recovery is adequate. I have not seen the same "shift" that guys like Waterrockets have by doing more threshold development.

my profile in w/kg is pretty much all arounder (from recent data):

5s: 18.42
1m: 8.42
5m: 5.15
ftp: 4.35
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:09 PM   #2
substructure
RustyTainte
 
substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 28012
Bikes: zilch
Posts: 12,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your weakness is sweets.
substructure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:12 PM   #3
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by substructure View Post
Your weakness is sweets.
aside from that
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:13 PM   #4
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,733
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Sounds to me like you need more AWC, but I'm no expert in this stuff.

Do your training rides include such hills? Ever do hill repeats, perhaps in a large gear?
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:25 PM   #5
tombailey
awaiting uci approval
 
tombailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alexandria, VA
Bikes: Fuji Roubaix RC 06
Posts: 961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is your technique sound on the steep parts? A lot of people (who might pedal beautiful circles otherwise) turn into mashing beasts on steep climbs. Maybe you're losing watts that way?
tombailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:31 PM   #6
Yep
no cat contains
 
Yep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Scotland
Bikes:
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I envy your stats. The curious thing is that your 1 min and 5 min are strong especially and I would think that would be the "oomph" you're looking for on the steep sections. Are you racing in with 3s or p12s?
Yep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:40 PM   #7
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
+1 on spinning up steep stuff, even when standing.

I do 1' repeats on a 20% hill and average 100rpm, out of the saddle.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:49 PM   #8
timster
ɹǝʇsɯıʇ
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Bikes: 2011 Focus Whistler // 2011 Cannondale CAAD10 // 2009 Scattante XRL TT // 1993 Cannondale R400
Posts: 840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's almost 12 mph with a 39x26. What gearing do you use and what does your power look like for those repeats? Just curious.
timster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:49 PM   #9
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yep View Post
I envy your stats. The curious thing is that your 1 min and 5 min are strong especially and I would think that would be the "oomph" you're looking for on the steep sections. Are you racing in with 3s or p12s?
both for a few more weeks
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:50 PM   #10
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Force
Enthalpic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:52 PM   #11
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timster View Post
That's almost 12 mph with a 39x26. What gearing do you use and what does your power look like for those repeats? Just curious.
gearing - 39 by 12x25, no idea what gear I was in, I was in slobbering survival mode. I'd have to check power (at home/me at work)
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 12:58 PM   #12
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
Force
so now I've got to go dig through my library and get my friel book out?
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:01 PM   #13
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Do you ever train on severe inclines?
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:05 PM   #14
MDcatV
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
^not regularly. only on brickyard road during the 7 a.m. group ride. I thought it didnt matter, that watts were watts?
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:10 PM   #15
NomadVW 
部門ニ/自転車オタク
 
NomadVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Yuma, AZ
Bikes: 2005 Specialized Roubaix Elite, 2005 Specialized FSR XC Comp, 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, Fetish Cycles Road Bike
Posts: 3,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your weakness is looking for a weakness. You're bloody strong enough to attack the snot out of the peloton in current form.
__________________
Envision, Energize, Enable
NomadVW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:11 PM   #16
dgearhart
Atlanta Road Racer
 
dgearhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL3 will full carbon everything/everywhere and Zipp 404 tubulars for racing. Cyclocross bike is a 56cm carbon Blue CXc with carbon everywhere.
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that sounds like a pretty steep incline for most racers. I'm strong on hills and power climbs, but I'd crack on that course too. Anything over 10% is going to take a toll if you hit it lap after lap at race pace. Congrats on working back to the group and not giving up. I understand your question though, how could you train for a course like that....I agree with specific hill repeats that would prepare you for 10 - 15 of those hills over the course of 45 min.
dgearhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:15 PM   #17
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Bikes: Cervelo R3
Posts: 3,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
cut the fat, not the sweets
YMCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 01:58 PM   #18
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 5,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Watts is not watts. Specificity counts. Do hill repeats on the walls, get used to the sensations.
Creakyknees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 02:01 PM   #19
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
450 watts up a wall recruits different muscles from 450 watts on the flats.

that's how it feels to me, anyways.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 02:38 PM   #20
127.0.0.1
50000 Guatts of power
 
127.0.0.1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
450 watts up a wall recruits different muscles from 450 watts on the flats.

that's how it feels to me, anyways.
up a wall ? you stay at 450 ? cripes anything I call a 'wall' I am popping 700 watts or more for a bit.

well, 700-1100 on a short grunt 2/10ths or less, if it is a sustained climb then I will drop down below 400 so i can stay alive....
127.0.0.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 02:48 PM   #21
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
i can't do 700-1100 for a minute.

and a minute is how long it takes me to get up our local wall. ten times.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 02:55 PM   #22
Lithuania
Oh The Huge Manatee
 
Lithuania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: mabra
Bikes:
Posts: 4,528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what wall is that bd?
Lithuania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 03:11 PM   #23
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Learn to love the pain.

If you don't have super steep climbs around, climb the 'easier' ones in a much harder gear. Leg strength will come along.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 04:11 PM   #24
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Posts: 9,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The only thing I can suggest is try to get as close to the front by the base of the climb as possible, so that when you inevitibly drift back, you don't get detached.

BTW -- those are some decent power numbers. My strength is 5 minute (~5.4w/kg), you've pretty much got all of my other numbers blown away.
kensuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-09, 04:25 PM   #25
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
You can do intervals standing in super high gears.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 AM.