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  1. #1
    Senior Member acortez's Avatar
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    Supplement Question?

    This morning I went and rode with my good friend who did a citizens race on Sunday and is doing another one this coming Sunday. He likes to ride but he is also into weight lifting and getting "ripped." Anyway he just bought this creatine supplement for lifting but used it this morning before our ride. I have never seen him ride like he did today. He was out of the saddle dancing on the pedals every chance he got. I usually don't have to work much to drop him, today I was working at a good tempo up some climbs and he was not far behind. He was like "I feel great. I have never felt this good before. etc. " I took a look at what he is taking and this is what it is. It seems maybe the b12 would help or the caffeine, but not the change I saw today. I was skeptical when we first started the ride, but by the end I was convinced that what he took really helped his riding. Does anything in the supplement look dangerous? I am not an expert but it looks to be ok. I just want to make sure what he is taking is safe.

  2. #2
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    It a volumizer. It adds weight/water to your muscles. It shouldn't help much at all in endurance. Maybe - maybe - a little in track racing. Maybe.

    But believe me you, it ain't worth getting. He just had a great day. I have those once and a while too.

  3. #3
    Senior Member acortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substructure View Post
    It a volumizer. It adds weight/water to your muscles. It shouldn't help much at all in endurance. Maybe - maybe - a little in track racing. Maybe.

    But believe me you, it ain't worth getting. He just had a great day. I have those once and a while too.
    Maybe it was a great day for him, but that is one heck of a coincidence. I guess time will tell. Maybe others will chime in.

  4. #4
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    Creatine really does work, shown in for-real double blind peer reviewed science... but it only works for really short efforts, not the kind of stuff you're describing.

    I tried it years ago, could tell the difference in the weight room but on the bike it just made me crampy.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member acortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    Creatine really does work, shown in for-real double blind peer reviewed science... but it only works for really short efforts, not the kind of stuff you're describing.

    I tried it years ago, could tell the difference in the weight room but on the bike it just made me crampy.
    I guess time will tell, but I was pretty convinced this morning. His energy level seemed to be through the roof and didn't let off.

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    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Mixing creatine and caffeine can be a bad idea. You really have to stay hydrated if you're using creatine, and caffeine is a diuretic. Drink lots of water. Alternative is kidney failure. Particularly if you're sweating a lot, and I'm sure you're not doing any of that down in AZ.

    But creatine is wonderful in the weight room. I've used it.
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  7. #7
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    ^^ Name one professional, non track sprinter who uses creatine. If the stuff worked to improve road cycling perfomance, everyone would be using it, and there would be numerous ads from riders touting it.

    There are few magic bullets.


    And as for your friend's ride today, are you familiar with the placebo effect?
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  8. #8
    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    ^^ Name one professional, non track sprinter who uses creatine. If the stuff worked to improve road cycling perfomance, everyone would be using it, and there would be numerous ads from riders touting it.

    There are few magic bullets.


    And as for your friend's ride today, are you familiar with the placebo effect?
    or a good nights sleep
    or he's been training without you and you don't know it
    or he was on a good day and you weren't

    I've been beat by guys that I usually beat up on but I usually get mine back the next time, if he does it every day form now on then maybe, just maybe he's on to something...and if he hasn't been riding on his own and just gained more fitness.

  9. #9
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    it wasnt because of the creatine... but the 220mg of: Caffeine, ginseng,and Guarana Powder
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  10. #10
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Mixing creatine and caffeine can be a bad idea. You really have to stay hydrated if you're using creatine, and caffeine is a diuretic. Drink lots of water. Alternative is kidney failure.
    Kidney failure, are you serious?

    caffeine isn't the diuretic people pronounce it to be, you'll be fine.. but creatine is not going to give you any advantage in cycling.. only some extra water weight.
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  11. #11
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmotoguy View Post
    but the 220mg of: Caffeine, ginseng,and Guarana Powder
    Personally, when I'm doing speed intervals and have pushed to the point of where I feel I'm about to die, I don't want to have a bunch of stimulants on board, that might aid in pushing too far. I'd rather not worry right then whether anything I'm taking is putting my health at risk.

    None of this crap is regulated. A number of people have died using various supplements in the past. (such as L tryptohan, and Ephedrine). I'll take my chances without using unegulated supplements.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  12. #12
    Senior Member melkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    And as for your friend's ride today, are you familiar with the placebo effect?
    ^ftw
    Quote Originally Posted by edbikebabe View Post
    You're totally ruining this thread with your logical & rational thought. Stop it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Personally, when I'm doing speed intervals and have pushed to the point of where I feel I'm about to die, I don't want to have a bunch of stimulants on board, that might aid in pushing too far. I'd rather not worry right then whether anything I'm taking is putting my health at risk.

    None of this crap is regulated. A number of people have died using various supplements in the past. (such as L tryptohan, and Ephedrine). I'll take my chances without using unegulated supplements.
    I did a review of literature for College on it.
    Creatine by its self should be fine as it is naturally produced by the body anyway. There is not real evidence (as far as I know ),that it harms kidneys, if taken correctly.

    I would recommend that you take supplements separately so that you can judge their individual effect. However some studies support taking creatine with glucose.

    It offers little in the way of improving endurance, but it very useful for interval training and strength training. You need to cycle dosing the product, as if you take it all the time it does not increase your blood creative levels as the body compensates by producing less.

    Some people do not respond to supplemental creatine, especially those with high initial levels. Women tend to respond less also.

    This summery is based on information from around 8 years ago however.
    Many top atherlets have rounteinly used creatine over the last 15 years; including rowers,sprinters,power sports partipants, and I am sure track and sprint cyclists included.
    Last edited by bhkyte; 07-14-09 at 02:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member kwrides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
    I did a review of literature for College on it.
    Creatine by its self should be fine as it is naturally produced by the body anyway. There is not real evidence (as far as I know ),that it harms kidneys, if taken correctly.

    I would recommend that you take supplements separately so that you can judge their individual effect. However some studies support taking creatine with glucose.

    It offers little in the way of improving endurance, but it very useful for interval training and strength training. You need to cycle dosing the product, as if you take it all the time it does not increase your blood creative levels as the body compensates by producing less.

    Some people do not respond to supplemental creatine, especially those with high initial levels. Women tend to respond less also.

    This summery is based on information from around 8 years ago however.
    Many top atherlets have rounteinly used creatine over the last 15 years; including rowers,sprinters,power sports partipants, and I am sure track and sprint cyclists included.
    So is Testosterone and HGH.
    Quote Originally Posted by dewaday View Post
    I'm 50 years old. My parents find cycling 6-8 hours completely incomprehensible and self indulgent. Of course they're right, but I continue to ignore them as a form of rebellion.

  15. #15
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwrides View Post
    So is Testosterone and HGH.
    You don't need bacteriostatic water and needles for creatine.

  16. #16
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwrides View Post
    So is Testosterone and HGH.
    and they are both pretty damn safe, as far as I've read..
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  17. #17
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Creatine is used during energy production to provide a phosphate molecule. During intense workouts supplemental creatine can help give you that last kick or, in the weight room, let you finish that last rep in a workout to failure workout.

    I don't think that was what was helping your riding partner.

    As dmotoguy said I'd look more at the "220mg of: Caffeine, ginseng,and Guarana Powder" Those are stimulants and thermogenics.

    I use a similar product in spring to drop the last few kilos before my first A race. It always works for me. I back off after that because it can be stressful on the kidneys and I'm saving those for later.
    Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 07-14-09 at 06:27 PM.
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  18. #18
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
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    I bought a bottle of creatine about a year and a half ago and it has sat in the bottom of one of my desk drawers since. This thread made me think of it, get it out, and since I road into work today on my bike, I decided to take a couple to see what the effects, if any, would be on my 2 hour long commute home. The bottle looked almost full and I couldn't remember specifically why I had never taken a them after first buying them.

    I am an idiot.

    After an hour, my thighs felt like they had been beaten with a ball peen hammer. It could be the placebo effect or the power of suggestion of Creakyknees' "crampy" post, but now I think I know why I hadn't used up the bottle.

    To the OP, I suggest you buy a small bottle and give it a try. This is something you want to experience first hand yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  19. #19
    Senior Member kwrides's Avatar
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    Lol!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewaday View Post
    I'm 50 years old. My parents find cycling 6-8 hours completely incomprehensible and self indulgent. Of course they're right, but I continue to ignore them as a form of rebellion.

  20. #20
    Senior Member tc83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Mixing creatine and caffeine can be a bad idea. You really have to stay hydrated if you're using creatine, and caffeine is a diuretic. Drink lots of water. Alternative is kidney failure. Particularly if you're sweating a lot, and I'm sure you're not doing any of that down in AZ.
    truth. given that you go through much more sweat in cycling than you do on the bench press, I would say that supplementing with creatine is a dangerous game.

  21. #21
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc83 View Post
    truth. given that you go through much more sweat in cycling than you do on the bench press, I would say that supplementing with creatine is a dangerous game.
    Not proven by any studies I am aware of.

    Neither has cramp been found to result from supplementation, although it has been reported anecdotally. Hydration is actually better when on creatine as it tends to make the person retain more water. This may be a weight disadvantage that negates any strength gains, but hydration is not a disadvantage of creatine usage. So whether it makes a differnce in endurance type activies depends on the balance of extra training benifieted against any extra weight due to water retention.

    Creatine is safe to use if correctly dosed and can be effective in most people for intensive high output training activities.That will include interval training that many road cyclists use. Creatine is not effective if taken constantly, unless there is a metabolic problem,unlikely in healthy cyclists.

    Their are alot of studies of how best to dose creatine, and this makes a large difference to its effect. Most studies suggest, or find an intial high dose,then a maintence dose ,then a rest period works best. Otherwise blood creatine levels stay constant depite the extra creatine, as the body sythesizes less creatine if blood levels are constantly supplmented.

    Sorry if you some people do not like the findings of many studies over the last few years!

  22. #22
    Super Moderator
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    If someone is interested in getting "ripped" etc, they might have been taking more than just caffeine and creatine (?). Just saying, not accusing. I did read somewhere that 38% of casual weight lifters surveyed at a non-casual gym (Golds) used steroids or similar products. They were pretty much all recreational lifters, i.e. they had real jobs, didn't do shows, didn't compete, etc. They just wanted to be bigger/stronger.

    And regardless, +1 on caffeine effect and +1 on placebo.

    Add to that some adrenaline/excitement motivation.

    I think motivation, whether from emotion or belief in oneself, is extremely powerful.

    cdr

  23. #23
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmotoguy View Post
    Kidney failure, are you serious?

    caffeine isn't the diuretic people pronounce it to be, you'll be fine.. but creatine is not going to give you any advantage in cycling.. only some extra water weight.
    Happened to a HS football player here down here. Granted, this was only one (I assume) attending physician's opinion, but he blamed the kid's kidney failure on the use of creatine along with "hydrating" with Coca-Cola insead of water.
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  24. #24
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    I read a fair amount about creatine when I was trying to figure out what I should use in my recovery drinks.

    I decided against it for two main reasons:

    1) It primarily seems to add bulk by increasing the amount of water stored in the muscles. Bulk generally isn't a good thing for a cyclist unless he is really weak to begin with.

    2) I've read quite a few stories about creatine affecting hormones and, as a result, mood. It seems to be pretty important to take the proper dosage and to cycle creatine. The proper dosage seems to vary based on how much ones body produces naturally.

    I think it can help to build mass if used properly, but I just don't think it's worth it to a cyclist.

  25. #25
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    I'm trying creatine after not using it for about 8 years. I didnt see any results before other than intestinal problems and I'm not seeing much of a result this time around either. I'm probably just going to save my money and not buy any more when this runs out.

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