Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-09, 09:42 AM   #1
San Rensho 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
What is Cavendish's cadence in a sprint?

It seems to be really low. From my observations, my estimate is that he has a cadence of between 90 and a 100, a fairly low cadence for a sprint, but I guess after going over 100 miles, your legs are not to have that much snap.

So assuming he's riding a 53/11, that means his speed is about 35 to 40 mph.

Does that seem right?
__________________
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
San Rensho is online now  
Old 07-17-09, 09:46 AM   #2
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,126
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Don't think so. I'd bet you're 5mph or more light on the speed.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 09:50 AM   #3
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Rensho View Post
It seems to be really low. From my observations, my estimate is that he has a cadence of between 90 and a 100, a fairly low cadence for a sprint, but I guess after going over 100 miles, your legs are not to have that much snap.

So assuming he's riding a 53/11, that means his speed is about 35 to 40 mph.

Does that seem right?

35mph is pretty light for these guys, I hit 34.5 on Sat for the city limits on a flat road with slight head wind. The two guys in front of me were probably about .5-1mph faster. It looks like all three, Cav, Thor, and Tyler look like they are turning a low cadence though.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 09:52 AM   #4
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,851
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
I hit 38 and change last sunday in the 53x11. I'm pretty sure Cav can beat me.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:00 AM   #5
Grumpy McTrumpy
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
I think the leadouts are over 40
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:09 AM   #6
Grumpy McTrumpy
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGWJw4WwBA

metronome says around 115rpm. Probably low-to-mid 40s for speed.
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:11 AM   #7
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What I'd love to see is his SRM downloads...
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:20 AM   #8
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
if you get cavendish's SRM downloads, dont go to europe
MDcatV is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:47 AM   #9
blarnie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 336
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On the #4, the uphill sprint, he said he was in the 13 or 14. He was turning them over quicker then Thor. That's why he was able to come around him.

Remember, kids a trackie.

The 11 is not always the choice. Gotta have the strength to turn over a bigger, not necessarily the biggest gear, faster and longer than who you're sprinting against.
blarnie is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 10:56 AM   #10
fly:yes/land:no
abandoning
 
fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGWJw4WwBA

metronome says around 115rpm. Probably low-to-mid 40s for speed.
according to my stop watch (the youtube clock), it took the lead group about 55 seconds to get from 1k to the finish. that works out to 40.39 mph average over the final 1k.
fly:yes/land:no is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:07 AM   #11
fly:yes/land:no
abandoning
 
fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
here is andre greipel's final 1000m at the tour of germany a few years ago (he won the sprint). it isn't cavendish, but a good look at a pro's power data in a sprint.

earlier in the stage, he hit 1626 watts. average power for the last 30 seconds was 1061 watts.
fly:yes/land:no is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:09 AM   #12
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,575
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Remember that just 4 rpm or so is 1 mph in the big gears.

I should have emailed myself the little spreadsheet I made to calculate speed based on gear and cadence.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:17 AM   #13
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Remember that just 4 rpm or so is 1 mph in the big gears.

I should have emailed myself the little spreadsheet I made to calculate speed based on gear and cadence.

cdr

Try this one

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html

According to this chart 53x11@115rpm is 43.2mph based on a 23mm 700c tubular tire with 172.5mm crank arms.

Last edited by El Diablo Rojo; 07-17-09 at 11:22 AM.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:18 AM   #14
fatallightning
Cat 666
 
fatallightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: nyack, ny (yes, that one)
Bikes:
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
here is andre greipel's final 1000m at the tour of germany a few years ago (he won the sprint). it isn't cavendish, but a good look at a pro's power data in a sprint.

earlier in the stage, he hit 1626 watts. average power for the last 30 seconds was 1061 watts.
Hm, low cadence, 110 or so in the final kick. Interesting.
fatallightning is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:21 AM   #15
Jynx
.....
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Bikes: 2006 Cannondale CAAD8
Posts: 4,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the final sprints are right around 45 mph. The leadouts are at about 40 - 41mph before they go. Extremely impressive.
__________________
Weight Listing Index (Feel Free to add to it!)

Buy your bike parts here
Jynx is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 11:34 AM   #16
ericcox
Trying to keep up
 
ericcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fort Worth
Bikes: Orbea Onix & Bianchi Premio
Posts: 1,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wonder if he is using a 53, or if he's running something a little bigger. I've nothing to go off, just curious.
ericcox is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 12:27 PM   #17
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 7,334
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
On stage 11 I timed his last 7 strokes at just over 4 seconds which would be 102 RPM. Roughly 49kph in a 53x14. It looks like they gained about 30m of elevation in the final 500m so a 6% slope which would take a little over 1100W according to kreuzotter.

My question is: why is it recommended to do spinups in the little ring if the pro sprinters aren't turning more than 110 or 120 in the final sprint?
gregf83 is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 12:36 PM   #18
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,977
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Well, most of us are amateurs. Why would we try to copy pros, who are freaks of nature? What works for them shouldn't be what works for us.

Also, I can all but guarantee that pro sprinters also do low-gear sprints. Just not when they're racing.
queerpunk is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 12:57 PM   #19
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,575
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
I like that gear speed calculator. I plugged in 52, 53, 54 to get common chainrings vs speed.

52x11 - going from 100 to 104 rpm is just over 1 mph difference (that's what I was referring to in my previous post). Miscounting just a few rpm (or varying cadence just a touch over a couple seconds) is significant.

At 100 rpm, 52 vs 54 is 1.5 mph difference in speed. I guess when I ran a 54, it was worth either -3 rpm or forcing guys to pedal just a bit faster. Jeez 120 rpm.

I think guys will run slightly larger rings (54 for example) to hone their sprint. I felt it was helpful at the very top end. I used to run 51, 53, then 54 as the season progressed. Now I can't turn over the 53 even so a 54 would be useless. And I don't have my 51 anymore so I just run a 53 all the time.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 01:03 PM   #20
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thor seems to have the lowest cadence of any sprinter I've seen, and he always sits well before the line. He sprints like he's out of gas.
Dubbayoo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 01:36 PM   #21
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,575
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
My question is: why is it recommended to do spinups in the little ring if the pro sprinters aren't turning more than 110 or 120 in the final sprint?
Keep in mind that the pros were amateurs once. They've done a lot of various training, miles, etc. Hincapie is the only Tour guy I've raced against (meaning we entered the same race - that's about the closest I got to beating him), and he cleaned up around here as a 15 year old. He rode the Jr gear limits (49x15 or 53x16 as an Intermediate, then one tooth smaller as a full fledged Junior), learned to spin those little gears, etc etc etc.

Spinups and other high cadence drills help accelerate learning pedaling efficiency. This efficiency takes a long time to hone, lots of hours, lots of muscle memory, and drills and such help accelerate the process. That's why guys do fixed gear work, lots of LSD, spin ups, etc etc etc. Doing 15k or 20k miles a year for 3 or 5 or whatever years goes a long way towards honing pedaling efficiency. Or you could just do fewer miles for more years. I took the latter approach since I've never exceeded 10k miles, and usually am below 3k for the year.

Another way to hone pedaling efficiency is to do long, long, long hours, even for riders like me. You learn to pedal more efficiently when you have almost no gas left but enough to keep your wits about you. Suddenly you'll realize that sitting "just so" will help, or standing "just so", etc. I learned the hard way about saving energy - bonk 30 miles from home will teach you how to ride using as close to zero wasted energy as possible. Or doing 100 mile rides in Feb. Or ride (not as many miles as a pro, but also drill) for 20 or 30 years.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 01:36 PM   #22
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
Thor seems to have the lowest cadence of any sprinter I've seen, and he always sits well before the line. He sprints like he's out of gas.
That's why I'd love to see his SRM downloads, he's kinda mashing the gears so his watts must be pretty high. Honestly it wouldn't matter if he was turning 80 or 180 the dude has a vicious kick and he can hold it.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 03:13 PM   #23
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
That's why I'd love to see his SRM downloads, he's kinda mashing the gears so his watts must be pretty high. Honestly it wouldn't matter if he was turning 80 or 180 the dude has a vicious kick and he can hold it.
In the past he's held it but he just doesn't seem to be doing it this year. I have wondered why he just doesn't take it out from 250-300m. If you watch almost as soon as he pulls out from behind Cav he starts to sit after just a few revs, almost like he can't get on top of the gear.

I think Farrar should go while Cav is still on his leadout wheel. In most of the sprints Cav jumps first and holds the same gap, it never increases. There was one where he dropped everyone bad but not usually. So far he who jumps first wins.
Dubbayoo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 03:22 PM   #24
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
In the past he's held it but he just doesn't seem to be doing it this year. I have wondered why he just doesn't take it out from 250-300m. If you watch almost as soon as he pulls out from behind Cav he starts to sit after just a few revs, almost like he can't get on top of the gear.

I think Farrar should go while Cav is still on his leadout wheel. In most of the sprints Cav jumps first and holds the same gap, it never increases. There was one where he dropped everyone bad but not usually. So far he who jumps first wins.
I was referring to Cav's kick. But yeah I see your point...I think at this juncture you might as well go early cause you aren't going to come around him.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 07-17-09, 03:32 PM   #25
dmotoguy
Edificating
 
dmotoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Bikes: Spooky + Sachs
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
he's kinda mashing the gears so his watts must be pretty high.
mashing a big gear slow can have the same net wattage as spinning a smaller gear.. the only way you know his watts are high is his placing in every friggin field sprint.
dmotoguy is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:35 PM.