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  1. #1
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    Training rides keeping the speed up when your up front...tips wanted

    I went out yesterday on a training ride and did 58.75 km I finished feeling strong and I've improved my times from last season on the same loop and my average speed.

    I was off the front the entire ride breaking the headwind with a friend of mine being 4 mins behind me most of the ride.

    my average heart rate was 144 which is low zone 2 for me so I could have gone harder, I was in Zone 5a on the climbs

    so when your out front but quite a bit with no one on your wheel to push you or no one in front to chance down how do you keep up the pace ?

    I looked down at times on the flats and had settled in at 20kmph and was able to immediately push it to 31 kmph once I realized I wasn't pushing hard enough.

    I train most of thew time solo occasionally with friends but I'm stronger than most of them so having someone beat me up and drop me is not a common occurrence unfortunately

    besides finding some stronger riders to kick my ass regularly are there other ways or ticks to keep your speed up on rides ?

  2. #2
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    get a stopwatch and do some 20 minute intervals where you maintain the high pace. treat the rest period afterward with reverence.

    learn how to get low and aero when you are doing it.

  3. #3
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    ...
    I was off the front the entire ride breaking the headwind with a friend of mine being 4 mins behind me most of the ride.

    ...
    That sounds like one helluva vortex you create there.




    You've got you HRM on, use it to keep the effort up.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanders View Post
    You've got you HRM on, use it to keep the effort up.
    makes perfect sense

    what is a reasonable zone to stay in for a longer ride ? high Zone 2 and low Zone 3 seems reasonable?

    I remember seeing a post somewhere where they rated the amount of time one could spend in a zone and their fitness

    edit: here is the article I was looking for

    http://www.trainingpeaks.com/trainin...gintensity.asp

    so it appears higher in Zone 2 is achievable where holding Zone 3 unless your more advanced (I'm not) is going to make me blow up. could do some Zone 3 intervals though for 2-30 mins at a time
    Last edited by Smallguy; 03-14-10 at 10:53 AM.

  5. #5
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post

    I train most of thew time solo occasionally with friends but I'm stronger than most of them so having someone beat me up and drop me is not a common occurrence unfortunately

    besides finding some stronger riders to kick my ass regularly are there other ways or ticks to keep your speed up on rides ?
    This is really what you need to do. Find some people who race & try to hang on to their wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljrichar View Post
    This is really what you need to do. Find some people who race & try to hang on to their wheel.
    This. If you want to get faster, ride with the fast people.
    - Joe
    Addicted

  7. #7
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    I'll do some asking around for a faster group that won't completely decimate me in 10 minutes

  8. #8
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    makes perfect sense

    what is a reasonable zone to stay in for a longer ride ? high Zone 2 and low Zone 3 seems reasonable?

    I remember seeing a post somewhere where they rated the amount of time one could spend in a zone and their fitness

    edit: here is the article I was looking for

    http://www.trainingpeaks.com/trainin...gintensity.asp

    so it appears higher in Zone 2 is achievable where holding Zone 3 unless your more advanced (I'm not) is going to make me blow up. could do some Zone 3 intervals though for 2-30 mins at a time
    from reading that article I'd say you need to do intervals in Zone 4-5

  9. #9
    runnin' down a dream edbikebabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silversx80 View Post
    This. If you want to get faster, ride with the fast people.
    Yes, yes. It's completely demoralizing - it's what I'm doing right now - just waiting to reap some rewards from it...

  10. #10
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    What the hell is kmph ?

  11. #11
    runnin' down a dream edbikebabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    What the hell is kmph ?
    I'm thinking it's kilometers (km) per hour. It took me a minute too...

  12. #12
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    I'll do some asking around for a faster group that won't completely decimate me in 10 minutes
    You might have to get dropped over & over & over. I spent a whole season getting dropped on A rides. Some of them regrouped, some didn't. If you're not willing to get dropped, then you're not willing to get faster, IMO.

  13. #13
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    I'll do some asking around for a faster group that won't completely decimate me in 10 minutes
    incorrect

    You want the group that will kill you. Just keep coming back.

    After a while it will take them 15 minutes to kill you. Then 20. Etc.
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  14. #14
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
    incorrect

    You want the group that will kill you. Just keep coming back.

    After a while it will take them 15 minutes to kill you. Then 20. Etc.
    this

  15. #15
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    you're going between 20kph and 31kph on the flats and dropping your group ride?

  16. #16
    impressive member badhat's Avatar
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    you should be able to hold a low to mid z4 effort for more or less the entirity of a a 60k effort.

  17. #17
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhat View Post
    you should be able to hold a low to mid z4 effort for more or less the entirity of a a 60k effort.
    I hate the z# terminology. What does that work out to in human? Tempo? Threshold?

  18. #18
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    dunno. I think the referenced article was using some frakked up newfangled zones from the land of unicorns

  19. #19
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    I hate the z# terminology. What does that work out to in human? Tempo? Threshold?
    I believe that it is subthreshold to threshold, and I agree. A zone 2 (endurance) pace is not stressing anything when "your [sic] off the front." Don't be afraid to push harder.

  20. #20
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    but I should mention that from the article, I inferred that zone 4-5 was the same as L4 or LT or TT or CP60

  21. #21
    impressive member badhat's Avatar
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    zone 5 is lactate threshhold heart rate which is an HR training apx. of FTP

  22. #22
    impressive member badhat's Avatar
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    that is to say:the bottom of z5/top of z4 is your LTHR, which is where you start to determine hr zones

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    what is a reasonable zone to stay in for a longer ride ? high Zone 2 and low Zone 3 seems reasonable?
    I guess this is a fairly common wonderment, but not a puzzle I've ever been vexed about. Just go as hard as you can. If you frequently test and exceed your limits then you will know what they are, and you will no longer be guessing.

    And using HR to gauge anything is a waste of time, IMO.

  24. #24
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhat View Post
    zone 5 is lactate threshhold heart rate which is an HR training apx. of FTP
    My HR zones never really lined up well with my power zones.

  25. #25
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    My suggestions:

    1. get aero
    2. get to your optimal cadence @ threshold
    3. get into a rhythm and GO !
    Florida Velodrome Association.
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