Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-23-10, 08:40 PM   #1
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
Why don't people talk about 10" and 20" power?



I've never been in a sprint that lasted 5 seconds.
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 08:45 PM   #2
euphoria
Senior Member
 
euphoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas
Bikes:
Posts: 1,531
' denotes minutes. " is for seconds.

Maybe AWC covers the rest? *does not know*
euphoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 08:53 PM   #3
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
' "
'''' """"

good point...
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 08:58 PM   #4
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
My focus is on 12" power.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:05 PM   #5
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Bikes:
Posts: 13,554
I've wondered about this too - and am tracking 10-sec, 20-sec, and 30-sec power over time in WKO as a result.

I'm guessing it's just the shortest amount of time useful for measurement, not necessarily a measurement of your actual 'sprint'.
__________________
cat 1.

blog
mattm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:18 PM   #6
procrit
carbon is too light
 
procrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Bikes: Cannondale Road / Orbea TT
Posts: 950
It's more fun to benchrace with 5" power because it's a higher number than 10" or 20"?
procrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:26 PM   #7
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
I changed the thread title to reflect seconds instead of minutes.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:29 PM   #8
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
The goal with 5" power tests is to get an idea of pure sprint ability. ATP burns up in like 7-15" for people. I can do 7" sprints all day long without much fatigue. If I do 15" sprints, I can do only ~six at "full" power. Not enough ATP available for me.

So, 10" power would be pretty variable and wouldn't always reflect people's real "jump" ability.

When you look at 20", it's got a HUGE AWC component, but that ATP will carry some people further into it than others, so 1' power turns out to be a better measure for AWC.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:30 PM   #9
ericm979
Senior Member
 
ericm979's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains
Bikes:
Posts: 6,170
Probably because it's all anaerobic. Much longer and some aerobic component is used as well.
FTP is an hour for the same reason- all aerobic, not significant anaerobic component.

There is probably a paper by Coggan on the matter.
ericm979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 09:31 PM   #10
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,035
I don't train with power but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Is it because your power peaks at 5" and then it slowly declines over the next 10 to 15" in a sprint?

Last edited by agoodale; 03-23-10 at 09:34 PM. Reason: my bf "jump" is also slow. I think WR and I are saying the same thing...
agoodale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 10:03 PM   #11
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
I don't train with power but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Is it because your power peaks at 5" and then it slowly declines over the next 10 to 15" in a sprint?
My power spikes at 1 sec.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 10:21 PM   #12
bostongarden
meow
 
bostongarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hint: check out my BF name
Bikes: 2011 Cannondale Super Six, Dura Ace 7800, 2007 Cannondale System Six Dura Ace 7800, 1992 Bridgestone RB-1, MB-2, MB-3, MB-5
Posts: 5,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
I changed the thread title to reflect seconds instead of minutes.
Good to know that you have this power. While one -- us non blue star type -- can edit a post, one cannot edit a thread title.
bostongarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 11:12 PM   #13
efficiency
Does Not Exist
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Voltairia
Bikes:
Posts: 2,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I'm guessing it's just the shortest amount of time useful for measurement, not necessarily a measurement of your actual 'sprint'.
That's it. It's a measurement of your jump. Coggan chose 5s because most powermeters do not sample data faster than one second intervals. The Powertap hub sends data every 1.26s. With 5s, you have 3-4 data samples, giving a more reliable measurement.
efficiency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 04:50 AM   #14
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
My power spikes at 1 sec.
Indeed.

My "instant" peak power is about 150 watts higher than my 5" power which is about 125 watts higher than my 10" power which is about 30 watts higher than my 20" power.

My 5" power isn't all that impressive I don't think, yet I'm crushing the cat 4 sprints...i'm thinking it has much more to do with my 20" abilities than my 5" abilities.
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 05:12 AM   #15
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 40,362
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
I changed the thread title to reflect seconds instead of minutes.
meddling mods.
botto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 05:55 AM   #16
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey
Posts: 9,804
this dial goes to 11.
kensuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 06:13 AM   #17
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by botto View Post
meddling mods.
Better than a meddling hippy

waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 06:38 AM   #18
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
You can say that again!
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 07:05 AM   #19
fordfasterr
One speed: FAST !
 
fordfasterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL
Bikes: Ebay Bikes... =)
Posts: 3,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
this dial goes to 11.
many lols !!
fordfasterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 07:53 AM   #20
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tspek View Post
You can say that again!
<grumble grumble> forum bugs </grumble grumble>
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 08:15 AM   #21
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,239
Correct. The 5 sec is important for the jump as that measures ability to get a gap going.

I'm surprised that your 10 sec and 20 sec are so similar. That means you have a good jump and a windup sprint. I think my 5 sec to 10 sec drop was about 200-300, and then another 100 or so more at 20 sec.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 08:40 AM   #22
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
**I'd prefer to take another look at WKO before I throw these numbers around**

Last edited by tspek; 03-24-10 at 08:45 AM.
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 08:55 PM   #23
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tspek View Post
**I'd prefer to take another look at WKO before I throw these numbers around**
Actually, I think I had that backwards.

100-150ish drop from 5 sec to 10 sec (1350 to like 1200ish?) then 200 or so down to the 20 second mark.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 09:24 PM   #24
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Bikes:
Posts: 20,239
I'd just keep doing what you're doing if you're winning. I'm guessing you go early and draw them out before they want to come out.
ridethecliche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 09:29 PM   #25
tspek
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
I'd just keep doing what you're doing if you're winning. I'm guessing you go early and draw them out before they want to come out.
I deleted that because I kept editing it and I just wanted to start over.

So basically my 20" power is only 180 watts off my 5" power and the drop from 10-> is minimal.

My last win came on a very very long sprint, longer than I'd ever done intentionally and while the opposition was minimal that day there was more than enough room between me and 2nd. I'm also reminded of a win last summer in which the guy went a lot earlier than I expected and I closed a huge gap to snub him at the line.

While I've had a few wins, it's all cat 5 and cat 4 stuff and I know that things will change once I upgrade...so what is working now will probably do me no more than top 10 as a 3--if I can even position myself to be in the sprint, which is a whole separate issue.
tspek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 PM.