carpediemracing 

Same casing but not same rubber. But that's second hand info so take it for what it's worth. Meaning I didn't talk to the Michelin engineers, my good friend did, and I may have lost something in the translation.

Base casing is the same. It's how thick (and what) the rubber/tread is and extra layers (puncture resistant layers of casing) that makes the Krylion different.

The Krylions now and before should be the same too, i.e. French and Far East produced versions. They moved the actual production machines to their new factory out east, and they bought 20% of the factory and basically reserved a part of the factory for their tires. They use the same compounds. They are not making "a la carte" tires ("pick a compound, casing, accessories, and we'll make the tire for you"). Same factory produces Bontrager, Kenda, Vittoria, among others.

Personally I've been fine on the Krylions. I even did a flat 3 turn crit and led out and won the sprint. In the rain no less. And I hate rain.

cdr

superdex

Krylions are the current set, and I've been pleased. Pretty good puncture resistance (I pulled a staple out a few weeks ago that didn't get all the way through), pretty good stability/comfort. So far I likes them mucho (previous tires include Panaracers and Hutchinson Fusions)...

caloso

I really liked the Krylions when they were called Carbons. In fact, I'm still riding one on my FG (with a Tuffy strip for extra puncture protection).

Caad 8

I have the GP 4000 and nothing punctures them. I've ridden over glass and nothing. But for strictly racing purposes the PR3 looks good. Then there's the Vittoia Open Corsa Evo slick. I'm leaning towards the PR3 because I've read that they're really good.

I also have the Continental Attack / Defend sitting in my garage, I could put those on.

aicabsolut

I use Pro3s because I loved the Pro2s so much. The 2s would dry out easier (particularly bad for the front tire that didn't get as much wear), but 3s seem to cut easier than 2s. I still have had good luck with them for racing and training...just had to spend more time picking out road salt and similar junk this winter.

Caad 8

Has anyone here ordered from pbk.com? How was it?

waterrockets 

fine for me

Scummer

No problems with PBK, nor wiggle.

grolby

Most tires from ~$25 and up are perfectly adequate. I've ridden Michelin Krylions and liked them a lot. Raced once on PR3s, didn't notice anything in particular, and they were on a borrowed pair of carbon clinchers, so it's kind of hard to say what they would have been like on my own wheels. I'm currently riding on Panaracer Evo3s. They're light, inexpensive and extremely sticky. They seem a bit stiffer than the Michelins I've ridden on, but that's in my hands, not on the road. The tread is also a bit pointy rather than perfectly round, but again, it's not really clear how much it matters. I don't even think about them when I'm going 45 mph downhill or leaning over through fast corners. Isn't that pretty much the point? I do like that they are carbon black rather than silica rubber treaded, which makes me feel better about them in the rain, but again, I pretty much forget about most of the tires I've tried once I'm actually trying to maintain position in a damp crit.

I think my favorite of the tires I've tried is the Schwalbe Ultremo, which has the good attributes of the Panaracers without the ones that leave me scratching my head, but at one tire for the cost of a set of the Krylions or Evo3's, it's pretty hard to justify them.

Creakyknees

I'm with WR, with the major exception of quality tubies. But I haven't bothered to own a pair in many years so what's that tell ya?

tspek

In fairness, I have never really ridden a true "mid-level" tire, so I'm comparing my PR3's to catfish food. But, I love them just the same.

ridethecliche

I trained and raced on Krylion carbons. I now have a few sets of vittoria rubino pros that I raced and trained on. Liked them. I think I have a few extra if anyone wants to buy a set to try.

mike868y

I thought I remember yousaying you raced on like $20 tires

tspek

You're going to have to study harder than that at your fancy college.

ljrichar

My experience as well. Unfortunately, I had to give up on the 3's. I'm trying out GP 4000s' now & am digging them so far.

mike868y

I was referring to a thread a few months back where etc said he raced on $20 tires.

botto 

41.

CrimsonKarter21

My favorite clincher has been a brand new P3R. Once they've worn a little bit, though, they're f'ed and worthless. I'm racing on Vredestien Volante triComps now and like them enough. I got a good price on them. If I could get them for cheap enough, I'd buy the Vittoria EvoCG pave clinchers in a heartbeat. Those are the best tires I've ever had.

pelikan

I've ridden both, and I am fairly certain that this is not true. Different tires, both really good though.

johnybutts

I use Specialized Mondo Pro tires... For me, they've been GREAT. Excellent flat protection, and good grip.

I don't see any reason to have "race tires" and "training tires" separate. I race what I ride for the most part.

tspek

Because "race" tires cost $65 while my "training tires" cost $20.

johnybutts

My race tires cost $15.... funny story: so do my training tires.

tspek

Mmmk.

waterrockets 

Same here. I've still managed to win on them. Well, $20 tires anyway. I haven't seen too many $15 deals...

rruff

Good to check out AFM's and Tour's Crr tests... the "open tubulars" (Vittoria along with Zipp, Bontrager, and Specialized clones, Challenge Criterium (same as Deda Tre), the Veloflex Record or Corsa) are generally good though not so puncture resistant or durable. Of course, you should expect a tradeoff there. For a more puncture resistant and durable tire the Conti 4000S is tops... or if you want to go faster the Conti SS is really good... light and very good Crr. I like the feel of the PR3 and they have fairly good Crr (same as GP4000S) but suck for puncture resistance and life... there are faster and/or more durable alternatives.

You can buy the Contis and Vittorias for $30-$40 each from Ribble, BTW.