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Old 03-31-10, 11:39 AM   #1
ldesfor1@ithaca
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another TT position critique:

This position seems to be comfortable.

Wondering how "fast" it looks in the eyes of some of the aero experts here on the board.

Thanks,
L
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Old 03-31-10, 11:54 AM   #2
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not entirely on topic, but... click this.
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Old 03-31-10, 11:57 AM   #3
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this was a few weeks ago. I'm all naired up, now. Winter insulation is gone!
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Old 03-31-10, 12:03 PM   #4
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this was a few weeks ago. I'm all naired up, now. Winter insulation is gone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJAj5pJ8oqM
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Old 03-31-10, 12:05 PM   #5
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this has been super helpful.
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Old 03-31-10, 12:09 PM   #6
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I think a pic of your normal position would be helpful in the comparison. Can't really say if it is better or worse without a before.
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Old 03-31-10, 12:15 PM   #7
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first TT bike.... this is the "before"
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Old 03-31-10, 12:17 PM   #8
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pay attention.
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Old 03-31-10, 12:21 PM   #9
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pay attention.



leo - sorry for participating in the tangent.
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Old 03-31-10, 12:37 PM   #10
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It would be useful to see a shot of your road position.

I rotated the first image so you're on level ground (compared to a monitor) and tweaked the perspective so it's more like the camera is at hip height.

In general, looks pretty good. I'd say to get the elbows as close as you can bear to have them for the TT duration. You have some frontal area reduction possible if you can get lower up front.

I know brakes aren't the most aerodynamic things to have on a bike, but the head ref might want a set or two installed (yeah, I see front brakes in head-on shot).


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Old 03-31-10, 02:26 PM   #11
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My 2 cents: I'd try to reduce my frontal area some more. Lower your bars, pads, or whatever. You're on an ISM, so get out on the tip of that thing, and really rotate your hips forward. That will help your hip angle from getting too tight as you get lower on the front. What kind of TT races are you planning to do ? (I ask because that can affect your set up)
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Old 03-31-10, 03:15 PM   #12
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I've read accounts of several people trying the Flandis position in the tunnel. Seems like it works very well for some people, and not for others, and it's hard to tell without drag data. Any reason you don't want to go with a more conventional arms-level position?
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Old 03-31-10, 03:29 PM   #13
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I've read accounts of several people trying the Flandis position in the tunnel. Seems like it works very well for some people, and not for others, and it's hard to tell without drag data. Any reason you don't want to go with a more conventional arms-level position?
Cobb mentioned on his blog once that it's an all or nothing kind of position. Either it works well, or it's horrible. I'd be careful using it without some testing of some sort. Roll Down, Chung, etc.

Ah, found it

" I’ve been working for over a year on how to know when to recommend to a rider that the “hands high” position might work. I’ve tested many riders of different shapes to develop a good working knowledge base, I still will say for certain, that if there is any doubt, keep the lower hand height because when high hands don’t work, they really, really don’t work. When high hands work however, they are faster by a bunch."

http://johncobbresearch.wordpress.co...24/a-fun-week/
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Old 03-31-10, 03:32 PM   #14
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My 2 cents: I'd try to reduce my frontal area some more. Lower your bars, pads, or whatever. You're on an ISM, so get out on the tip of that thing, and really rotate your hips forward. That will help your hip angle from getting too tight as you get lower on the front. What kind of TT races are you planning to do ? (I ask because that can affect your set up)
Good point. I like the way the set up feels when I'm on the "rivet" of the ISM. It's really not bad. It seems that if I'm on the front of the saddle, then raising it up a bit would be needed. Does this seem true?

To get lower on the front, I think a new adjustable stem would be needed, unless I can find a 140mm stem with a serious negative rise. Any ideas on a stem? Currently I'm running a 140 with -7 drop.

Longest TT will be 25 minutes (11 mile SR TT stage) others will be in the 15-22' range.
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Old 03-31-10, 03:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallF View Post
I've read accounts of several people trying the Flandis position in the tunnel. Seems like it works very well for some people, and not for others, and it's hard to tell without drag data. Any reason you don't want to go with a more conventional arms-level position?
i played with a more traditional position, too. This just feels most comfortable. It feels like I just fall into the pads as oposed to sliding around and needing to hold on. In this position, everything feels comfy.
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Old 03-31-10, 03:42 PM   #16
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Good point. I like the way the set up feels when I'm on the "rivet" of the ISM. It's really not bad. It seems that if I'm on the front of the saddle, then raising it up a bit would be needed. Does this seem true?
Hard to say, that's more of a fitting question and your pics don't really show where you are now with height.

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To get lower on the front, I think a new adjustable stem would be needed, unless I can find a 140mm stem with a serious negative rise. Any ideas on a stem? Currently I'm running a 140 with -7 drop.
I use an adjustable Ritchey, all the way down. I even had to saw off the "stop" so I could have it go lower. (And I have an XS frame). Basically, you can try to find an extreme stem, but they are hard to find. Or you can use a Ritchey/Oval adjustable stem and play around with it. Look's ergo stem is very adjustable but $$$ and super heavy. You can also get bars that have lower pad positions. Last year I went to an Easton Attack just for this purpose.

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Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
Longest TT will be 25 minutes (11 mile SR TT stage) others will be in the 15-22' range.
Then set up for a powerful position. But, I was more referring to what types of TT's. Local? Nationals? Will UCI rules be enforced?

As for the hands high, this Time Trialing, nothing is supposed to be comfortable!!
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Old 03-31-10, 03:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Hard to say, that's more of a fitting question and your pics don't really show where you are now with height.



I use an adjustable Ritchey, all the way down. I even had to saw off the "stop" so I could have it go lower. (And I have an XS frame). Basically, you can try to find an extreme stem, but they are hard to find. Or you can use a Ritchey/Oval adjustable stem and play around with it. Look's ergo stem is very adjustable but $$$ and super heavy. You can also get bars that have lower pad positions. Last year I went to an Easton Attack just for this purpose.


Then set up for a powerful position. But, I was more referring to what types of TT's. Local? Nationals? Will UCI rules be enforced?

As for the hands high, this Time Trialing, nothing is supposed to be comfortable!!
Local TT's... cat 3 stage races. Not looking to invest a ton of money in my TT rig, so I'm gonna try and make these bars work, but if TT's become more of a focus for me, then I'll begin to shell out more cash to get faster. For now I'm hoping to get as much speed as possible to set myself up for some SR GC contentions.

I really dont know if UCI regulations will be an issue for me. I dont think so... ?
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Old 03-31-10, 03:56 PM   #18
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Then I'd just find an adjustable stem off ebay, they can be found cheap.
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Old 03-31-10, 04:03 PM   #19
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I think it looks good. Back is sort of humpy but that doesn't always penalize you.

I also think you could rotate the whole position forward a bit with some tweaking and keep it legal (considering your height)
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Old 03-31-10, 04:11 PM   #20
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Looks as fast as a 6 string Ovation with a cutaway can get. Did you try lowering the action? Also, maybe something to reduce string drag?

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Old 04-01-10, 08:21 AM   #21
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my GF dislikes that guitar. She prefers Martin stings, though.
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Old 04-01-10, 08:42 AM   #22
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Elixir for many wins.
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Old 04-01-10, 08:43 AM   #23
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Elixir for many wins.
Until they start peeeeeeeling
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Old 04-01-10, 08:50 AM   #24
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Until they start peeeeeeeling
I don't understand why people are such cheapskates on guitar strings. Elixir's sound nice and play nice. They don't last forever, buy a new set.

It seems every guitar I pick up that isn't my own has some old dirty and dull sounding strings on them. Embrace new strings.
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Old 04-01-10, 10:36 AM   #25
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It looks like the armrests are slightly angled? I think you'd be more comfortable over a long TT sliding those rests back a bit so they support your elbows more, the way you're set up right now you're using your hands to hold yourself in position, gravity and bumps are going to try to force your arms back and down. Ideally you want to contact points to hold you in position vs. using muscles, this will reduce fatigue and enhance comfort, especially over a longer TT.

I don't subscribed to TT rigs being uncomfortable, especially if you spend some time training on them. EDR's ridden my Dean and commented that it was actually very comfortable. If you can get the contact points dialed in, you're going to be faster for a variety of reasons.

What would be helpful would be a side shot with the cranks at full extension/compression to check your hip angle and if there's any chest/diaphragm interference.
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