Threshold intervals: 8x5' vs. 5x5' (ATTN: ZeCanon)
05-13-10, 04:30 PM
#101
Not as fast as I was
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05-14-10, 01:55 PM
#103
fuggitivo solitario
did a set last night. my FTP HR is about 172. apparently 108% FTP power is about 103% FTP HR. I tried to shoot for 168, 170, 172, 174, 176 & 176 to account for HR ramping up. HR was pretty low throughout, and the max didn't go north of 171 for the first five repeats. I had enough in the tank to do a 15 min above FTP for the last one; while i know that's not going with protocol, i did them because i didn't feel drained at all for the first five and knew i was not doing it right. Finally was able to hit 177 until on the hills on the very last repeat. dammit, i need a PM
05-14-10, 03:13 PM
#105
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Don't.
I should.
Here is my reasoning. I am "all upon" (Homestar Runner reference) 6x5x1's only because they work my strength and for me hurt a whole lot less than 2 or 3x20's. I think that I really need to get back to my old protocol of 2x20's and long SST rides for FTP enhancement because those are nasty to me.
You, on the other hand, are more comfortable doing 3x20's. I think that getting out of your comfort zone will reap more benefits. Stick with the ZCI's for a while because they hurt like hell.
I should.
Here is my reasoning. I am "all upon" (Homestar Runner reference) 6x5x1's only because they work my strength and for me hurt a whole lot less than 2 or 3x20's. I think that I really need to get back to my old protocol of 2x20's and long SST rides for FTP enhancement because those are nasty to me.
You, on the other hand, are more comfortable doing 3x20's. I think that getting out of your comfort zone will reap more benefits. Stick with the ZCI's for a while because they hurt like hell.
05-14-10, 03:48 PM
#106
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I can understand wanting to train the mental toughness element as well, but aren't 6x5x1s focused on the same area of development (raising FTP)? If so, doing whichever is more palatable may be the best choice as it will ensure proper motivation and make it less likely that you'll skip out? For example, if you can convince your body that you're "only" doing 5 minute intervals, which your body is very good at, when in fact you're getting the same effect as a 2x20, then why not?
05-14-10, 03:49 PM
#107
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Forgot to give props for the Homestar Runner reference. "Burninating the countryside..."
05-15-10, 06:32 AM
#108
fair weather cyclist
Hey guys - regarding vo2max improvements, this is straight from the horses mouth (Dr. Coggan).
Note these are done at a percentage below your best CP5 "vo2max" not a percentage above your FTP.
6 x 5 min on, 2.5-5 min off, at the highest power you can produce yet still complete (barely!!) all six efforts. When you can complete all six efforts routinely/"comfortably", then it is time to up the power.
How this power compares to your current 5 min best will vary somewhat depending upon your anaerobic capacity. Mine is a bit below average, and so I do them at closer to 95%. OTOH, my wife had an outstanding anaerobic capacity, but that only helps during a "one-off" 5 min effort...she would therefore do 6 x 5 min at closer to 85%. 90% would definitely be a good starting point, however.
How this power compares to your current 5 min best will vary somewhat depending upon your anaerobic capacity. Mine is a bit below average, and so I do them at closer to 95%. OTOH, my wife had an outstanding anaerobic capacity, but that only helps during a "one-off" 5 min effort...she would therefore do 6 x 5 min at closer to 85%. 90% would definitely be a good starting point, however.
05-15-10, 06:41 AM
#111
out walking the earth
dunno. haven't slept much in two weeks so I probably won't be moving far from the couch. If I can muster the strength to go out to dinner for my kid's birthday that's all the win I need today.
05-15-10, 06:43 AM
#112
Senior Member
That appears to be a different workout than the the 5*5*1' threshold intervals being discussed here. The key being the longer recovery time. The whole point of ze's threshold intervals is to limit recovery time to ensure maximal fiber recruitment.
05-15-10, 06:56 AM
#113
fair weather cyclist
I dont even know what this "maximal fiber recruitment" but I can see this would be more of a LT improving exercise.
Last edited by pjcampbell; 05-15-10 at 07:02 AM.
05-15-10, 07:13 AM
#114
Senior Member
Yea I guess the first few 5' intervals in a set of 5*5*1 may do soomething for vo2, but probably not what a real vo2 interval would do.... :shrug:
According to ze, the point of these intervals is to wear out your anaerobic systems and fast twitch fibers so that you are relying on slowtwitch fibers, the ones that are more responsible for ftp...at least that's what I think...
According to ze, the point of these intervals is to wear out your anaerobic systems and fast twitch fibers so that you are relying on slowtwitch fibers, the ones that are more responsible for ftp...at least that's what I think...
05-15-10, 10:13 AM
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Yea I guess the first few 5' intervals in a set of 5*5*1 may do soomething for vo2, but probably not what a real vo2 interval would do.... :shrug:
According to ze, the point of these intervals is to wear out your anaerobic systems and fast twitch fibers so that you are relying on slowtwitch fibers, the ones that are more responsible for ftp...at least that's what I think...
According to ze, the point of these intervals is to wear out your anaerobic systems and fast twitch fibers so that you are relying on slowtwitch fibers, the ones that are more responsible for ftp...at least that's what I think...
(I wrote a long "explanation" earlier in the thread, look for it if you want more info on the matter)
05-15-10, 10:15 AM
#116
Senior Member
Thanks L. You seem to have the methodology done really well for these, it is nice having guys like you, ze, rx, cdr, umd, and everyone else who are so knowledgeable about training to converse with.
05-15-10, 10:25 AM
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you're welcome. Not all of us racers are geeks, but us geeks stick together and help our kind. 
05-15-10, 08:37 PM
#118
going roundy round
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I started to reply to mollusk earlier by giving you and substructure credit for helping me out with the 20's. The first attempts were... well... about like my 1st attempt at these. When I start something new, it's easy for me to come out of the gate with a little too much "exhuberance".
I've been doing 5min VO2's for a while with 5 min recovery. The 1 min of the ZCI really caught up with me.
I still think I want/need a powertap.
05-15-10, 08:55 PM
#119
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I started to reply to mollusk earlier by giving you and substructure credit for helping me out with the 20's. The first attempts were... well... about like my 1st attempt at these. When I start something new, it's easy for me to come out of the gate with a little too much "exhuberance".
I've been doing 5min VO2's for a while with 5 min recovery. The 1 min of the ZCI really caught up with me.
I still think I want/need a powertap.
I've been doing 5min VO2's for a while with 5 min recovery. The 1 min of the ZCI really caught up with me.
I still think I want/need a powertap.
05-15-10, 10:34 PM
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I'll stick with my television intervals for now. Go hard during the show (about 10 min) and recover during commercials (about 4 min) for one hour. Later I'll reverse that and go hard during commercials, recover during the show.
05-19-10, 03:22 PM
#121
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How many times would you do these (5x5x1) per week? Back to back days?
thx
thx
05-19-10, 03:51 PM
#122
Elite Fred
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05-19-10, 05:00 PM
#123
Elite Fred
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05-20-10, 05:55 AM
#124
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I would disagree with this, for the reason noted above re: cyclists who know their bodies. I do all my trainer intervals with a garmin 305 (monitoring HR and cadence). I have a feeling I'd get some good benefits from trying 6 x 5 x 1, even if I can't summon the Power Meter Gods while training.