Grumpy McTrumpy

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post10285045

rruff

Or just don't surge. Unless there is a headwind there is little benefit to drafting, and there is a pretty big detriment from surges.

DrWJODonnell

To derail this thread further, I want to address the "little benefit from drafting" on a climb thing. I am a scientist (and a chiropractor...amazing my head doesn't explode, I know), and so I understand that there is no (or rather so little as to be no) draft offered on real climbs, yet, I am amazed at how much easier it is to stick a wheel than it is to climb when solo or off of a wheel. Is this really 100% mental, or is it possible that maybe we need to rethink the idea of no draft on a climb. Because I have practiced this "no surge" thing and invariably I fall off bigtime. It's as though a headwind starts up as soon as I lose the wheel. Derail over.

to the OP, raise the FTP, lower the weight. You will be happy.

ronsalicious

Agreed. Working on both. 70 miles of hills today was awesome.

Brian Ratliff

Posting between stages at Hood are you? Excellent job winning the Cat 2s at the prologue!

Anyway, are you suggesting that you are electronically doping using an electron activated tractor beam on hills? Electron Doper!!!

Basil Moss

There is definitely a draft to be had on climbs. The less steep ones, it's quite big, on the steeper ones, basically if you let the wheel go you loose out at the top because the draft reappears again. If you are climbing behind somebody with anorexia athletica and an abnormal amount of erythrocytes, then the benefit of the draft may not be enough to save your chubby, anaemic ass, but that doesn't mean you won't be able to use it after a course of EPO.

The draft on climbs is why true climbers are able to change pace several times to drop people. Bigger riders with a massive engine can just motor along and drop a lot of folks, but some will always stick to the wheel. It takes a real midget to break the elastic completely and ride away alone.

rruff

I think most of the problem is that you lose the wheel because you've blown. But... there is a small benefit to drafting.

I did an analysis based on my parameters, 6% grade, 300W, sea level, no wind... speed is 10.811 mph. If I reduce the aero drag by 20% (probably close to the ballpark for drafting), then I can go 10.975 mph with the same power... a 1.5% speed increase... or a 5W (1.7%) power reduction to go the same speed.

Personally I find that sticking to someone's wheel to try and reap that small benefit is often too annoying to be worth it. If they are riding a pretty steady pace and it's the pace I'd like to go anyway, then it's fine. If they are surging a lot, then no... unless there is a headwind.

Since you are a good TTer and know how to pace a hard effort, I think it would be worth a shot to TT on the long climbs from the start. Starting at the back and passing most (or maybe all) of the field is way more fun than trying to hold someone else's pace and blowing up.

aicabsolut

I'm also a TT-style climber. I've been working on following surges on a climb (but I let the silly attacks at the bottom go), but this just doesn't work for me as the climbs get longer, because I just can't respond after a while. The only reason I've tried upping the suffer threshold periodically is for the need to stick on a wheel. I don't know if I am getting much drafting benefit, but I agree with the Dr. that there is some (maybe mental) benefit to sticking on the wheel. If I'm not going to hold on to accelerations (too many, hill too long, etc.), then I might as well treat the climb like I'm completely alone and not think about anyone else on the climb. I'll wind up passing all the people who start blowing up on a longer climb, but I have to put myself into a TT-pacing mindset to have any hope of staying in the race. Watching the good climbers just ride away will make me crack; I have to think about something else. It doesn't matter if the grade is allowing me to spin 90rpm or making me struggle at 60rpm. The overall experience is the same. Then, I see what damage control I can do on the descents. For me, I improve my climbing by improving my FTP.