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  1. #501
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    I did some Cavendish intervals last night....
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  2. #502
    \_(ツ)_/ Ygduf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post

    "it might hurt like a sonofa***** for a few seconds to push hard to close this gap but it will hurt more to get dropped and be alone for an hour"
    I always tell myself "it's 30% easier if I can get there" while staring at the space I want to be in behind whatever wheel.

    Also, what Eric said: I have weak punch, so if I want to latch onto someone I try to almost match their speed before they pass so I minimize the gap I have to close. This also helps when I think about it on pacelines, when I pull off and the other guy is coming around, I don't let him come around too quickly or I'm stuck trying to close a gap after I'm tired from a pull. It's not huge, but in a small like of 5-6 people and your turn is always coming up, I need every bit of recovery I can catch.

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  3. #503
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Man,

    I ventured into another forum and by the third thread was called a know-it-all blowhard who should be ignored because I was too busy defaming the dead (I mentioned that Sheldon Brown was wrong once).

    Please don't let this thread die.

    It has too much to live for.
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  4. #504
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    Here's a racing related question - why do people wait until the last minute to sign up for races (at least here in NC)?

    For example, it is 2 weeks to the state championship RR and there are no more than 2 people signed up for any category.

  5. #505
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    Here's a racing related question - why do people wait until the last minute to sign up for races (at least here in NC)?

    For example, it is 2 weeks to the state championship RR and there are no more than 2 people signed up for any category.
    i'd guess the weather might have something to do with it, especially if the course is sketchy

    edit: also, you could get injured. i signed up for a race 4 weeks ahead of time. one week later, i got crashed out & that's $30 down the drain.
    Last edited by echappist; 08-16-10 at 08:33 PM.

  6. #506
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    Here's a racing related question - why do people wait until the last minute to sign up for races (at least here in NC)?

    For example, it is 2 weeks to the state championship RR and there are no more than 2 people signed up for any category.
    I usually wait until the last chance for web-registration. Partly for weather, and with a busy family, I may find that I can't make it to the race after all.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  7. #507
    stole your bike roadiejorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    Man,

    I ventured into another forum and by the third thread was called a know-it-all blowhard who should be ignored because I was too busy defaming the dead (I mentioned that Sheldon Brown was wrong once).

    Please don't let this thread die.

    It has too much to live for.
    Wow...that was pretty ridiculous, but don't give up on the 41 just yet.

    I like pie

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    Here's a racing related question - why do people wait until the last minute to sign up for races (at least here in NC)?

    For example, it is 2 weeks to the state championship RR and there are no more than 2 people signed up for any category.
    Weather
    Illness
    Prefer to give promoter the late fee
    Keep goals more discrete

    I pre-reg if I am looking to do the race way in advance (gives me a target) or if I think there's a chance it'll close out.

    On the goals thing - I was the only one registered for the 3s in the NE Crits for a long, long time. Someone pointed it out - it's like showing your cards before the race. After I realized that I decided to pre-reg close to the event or do day of race.

    I use pre-reg start lists to get an idea of how hard the race will be, or who to mark.

    cdr

  9. #509
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    Here's a racing related question - why do people wait until the last minute to sign up for races (at least here in NC)?

    For example, it is 2 weeks to the state championship RR and there are no more than 2 people signed up for any category.
    The price difference between the bikereg fee and the late fee is usually only about $1 or $2 here in the F-L-A, so there's not much incentive to pre-register EXCEPT in the case of races which will fill up.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
    The price difference between the bikereg fee and the late fee is usually only about $1 or $2 here in the F-L-A, so there's not much incentive to pre-register EXCEPT in the case of races which will fill up.
    If the race is expensive, or if I think it's going to fill, I'll pre-reg. But if the day-of-race fee is $5 or so, I'd rather give the money to the promoter. Even $10 for a memorial race or something. I know as a promoter it's the folks that do day-of-race that make money. The pre-reg is almost a loss, even if the racer pays a lot (due to fees). That's a hint on Bethel Spring Series fees for next year btw.

    As a promoter, for large fields, BikeReg is a savior. My races give them a lot of money, and their advertising fees are very low (highlight race, side bar). A no brainer for a promoter.

    cdr

  11. #511
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Questions...
    Im going to try to get a little more specific with my training and would like some opinions...I train with a PM.
    My last race was 2 mo. ago and I may or may not race once more this fall, but dont have any scheduled. The races I like to do come in the spring, mainly crits/curcuits, probably 6-8 of them over a 2-3 mo period. So if Im going with a 16 week plan,
    A) what should I do between now and the start of the plan? I dont want to lose too much fitness, but dont want to do too much. Currently Im basically just putting in hrs/miles during the week, and doing the Sunday team/group ride, where I get a real good workout.
    B) At the end of the training plan, how long do you have good form/fitness?

    thanks for the input and opinioins.

  12. #512
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    If the race is expensive, or if I think it's going to fill, I'll pre-reg. But if the day-of-race fee is $5 or so, I'd rather give the money to the promoter. Even $10 for a memorial race or something. I know as a promoter it's the folks that do day-of-race that make money. The pre-reg is almost a loss, even if the racer pays a lot (due to fees). That's a hint on Bethel Spring Series fees for next year btw.

    As a promoter, for large fields, BikeReg is a savior. My races give them a lot of money, and their advertising fees are very low (highlight race, side bar). A no brainer for a promoter.

    cdr
    For Masters 4 races in NorCal, you pretty much have to pre-reg, and for the popular races as soon as it goes up. Not having to do that has been one of the real benefits to catting up.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    If the race is expensive, or if I think it's going to fill, I'll pre-reg. But if the day-of-race fee is $5 or so, I'd rather give the money to the promoter. Even $10 for a memorial race or something. I know as a promoter it's the folks that do day-of-race that make money. The pre-reg is almost a loss, even if the racer pays a lot (due to fees). That's a hint on Bethel Spring Series fees for next year btw.

    As a promoter, for large fields, BikeReg is a savior. My races give them a lot of money, and their advertising fees are very low (highlight race, side bar). A no brainer for a promoter.

    cdr
    That's interesting to know. At the last local race I did it was just the opposite. The promoter asked locals to sign up early so they would have some money to operate with. I never thought about it the other way around. I guess your series is far more established and so you have a better idea of what to expect entry-wise.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    That's interesting to know. At the last local race I did it was just the opposite. The promoter asked locals to sign up early so they would have some money to operate with. I never thought about it the other way around. I guess your series is far more established and so you have a better idea of what to expect entry-wise.
    I didn't think of that. I don't know different promoters' fiscal situations so I've always assumed that they'll be okay if the money shows up day of race.

    So although I don't think of "when" as being important for money, I guess it could be for those that need to pay bills pretty quickly. I have few bills that I pay up front - permit fees (few hundred total), numbers ($1300+), trophies ($500), whatever equipment died or needs replacing. The police, help, officials, insurance for USAC, prizes, they all get paid at the race or later. Since prizes are based on field size for me, I usually have enough day of race stuff to cover the prizes.

    There are days where it rains or something and I drive home with a lot less than the small bills I brought for change in the morning. Sometimes it goes on for a couple races. That's when I start thinking of asking for sponsorship dollars.

    cdr

  15. #515
    kuf
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernside View Post
    That's interesting to know. At the last local race I did it was just the opposite. The promoter asked locals to sign up early so they would have some money to operate with. I never thought about it the other way around. I guess your series is far more established and so you have a better idea of what to expect entry-wise.
    If they're signing up online early, I don't know if it would do the race promoter any good cash-flow wise (planning wise, sure). It would depend whether the site would send out an extra early check before the race. The promoter might have been asking people to mail in or hand in their registrations.

  16. #516
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    Cash flow - I think BikeReg sends out weekly checks, I can't remember. Well, for a weekly series they send out weekly checks. But for the series, I think I got checks before the first race ever happened.

    Mailing in registration is the best fiscally for the promoter. Money up front, no fees for anyone.

    It was a really, really good value for Bethel for a few people - I found their checks after many years, sitting in release forms and such. So they raced for free because of my mistake (I shredded the checks). And these were for full registration, i.e. 6 or 7 weeks of races.

    Reminds me. One rider bounced a check, so I'm going to file a complaint with the state police. This way there'll be a warrant for that person's arrest for fraud or something - someone told me about a time when a bike shop went to file a complaint regarding a bounced check for a bike (lots of $$). They had another check for $18 that bounced, and they figured, what the heck. So they brought that check along too. Apparently it worked because the guy that bounced the $18 check got pulled over for some minor driving thing (speeding etc). He was on a date with someone. Police ran his ID, arrested him right there. Probably didn't go well date-wise. Just a guess.

    Well, first I'll try and cash it at their bank. Then I'll file a complaint.

  17. #517
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    Questions...
    Im going to try to get a little more specific with my training and would like some opinions...I train with a PM.
    My last race was 2 mo. ago and I may or may not race once more this fall, but dont have any scheduled. The races I like to do come in the spring, mainly crits/curcuits, probably 6-8 of them over a 2-3 mo period. So if Im going with a 16 week plan,
    A) what should I do between now and the start of the plan? I dont want to lose too much fitness, but dont want to do too much. Currently Im basically just putting in hrs/miles during the week, and doing the Sunday team/group ride, where I get a real good workout.
    B) At the end of the training plan, how long do you have good form/fitness?

    thanks for the input and opinioins.
    if you're not going to race in the fall, I'd say just put some miles in your bum between now and the end of October before getting serious. Maybe do some of the fall centuries (they tell me the Gainesville Cycling Festival is an awesome event).

    I'm basically in the same situation as you.. I'm going to do a few races in September though, so I'm working on sharpening the sword for battle, but I'll be shutting down basically around September 18th.

    After my shut-down, my plan is to "JRA" with volume to my vacation in early October, take 2 weeks off the bike, then come back and start going to work. November 1 will be the "start" for doing some LT work 2-3x a week, and 1-2 weeks a month, probably starting around Turkey week, I'll do switch it up to do some Vo2 work (I'm an old man, it's not bad for us to do that).

    edited to add: I like to take ~2 weeks off the bike in the fall just to clear my head and let my body recover. it's a good time to go on vacation with the wife. we're going to go swim with the pigs this year.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  18. #518
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    thanks Ken
    so, seeing as how we can basically peak 2 times a year, Im trying to have a little more methodical approach...

    and after reading your post, it would seem like after you start building toward your peak you have good fitness for a while, a few months? And then shut it down, and start doing volume for about 2 months preparing for your next build phase?

    I hope Im making sense with my questions...

  19. #519
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    thanks Ken
    so, seeing as how we can basically peak 2 times a year, Im trying to have a little more methodical approach...

    and after reading your post, it would seem like after you start building toward your peak you have good fitness for a while, a few months? And then shut it down, and start doing volume for about 2 months preparing for your next build phase?

    I hope Im making sense with my questions...
    Well, for the fall, I'm only concerned about a 3 week window; I have no interest in trying to maintain peak form until October 30th and then try to get ready for the spring 2011 season. After the Ocala Race I basically went on a "zone 2 diet" (with some zone 3/4 on the local hammerfests) until the end of July; I already had "good fitness" and was just maintaining the endurance fitness while letting the high end slip a little (it slipped a bit by mid-June anyway from my May peak) while trying to get heat acclimated. In August I started up with the higher intensity structured stuff to shoot for that early September peak.

    With our calendar, it's a serious challenge. Yesterday I spent some time looking at the 2011 calendar for a friend who is trying to run a few local events, and basically we're full tilt boogie with racing from January 8th through early April, and then again from May to mid-June, and finally from the end of August to the end of October. You can't possibly expect to be on great form for all of those events, so you need to pick what is important to you..
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  20. #520
    coffee-stained punk hammy56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
    Well, for the fall, I'm only concerned about a 3 week window; I have no interest in trying to maintain peak form until October 30th and then try to get ready for the spring 2011 season. After the Ocala Race I basically went on a "zone 2 diet" (with some zone 3/4 on the local hammerfests) until the end of July; I already had "good fitness" and was just maintaining the endurance fitness while letting the high end slip a little (it slipped a bit by mid-June anyway from my May peak) while trying to get heat acclimated. In August I started up with the higher intensity structured stuff to shoot for that early September peak.

    With our calendar, it's a serious challenge. Yesterday I spent some time looking at the 2011 calendar for a friend who is trying to run a few local events, and basically we're full tilt boogie with racing from January 8th through early April, and then again from May to mid-June, and finally from the end of August to the end of October. You can't possibly expect to be on great form for all of those events, so you need to pick what is important to you..
    Same here. I was feeling burnt that weekend (almost literally), so afterward I did the same...lots of Z2 with hammerfest on Sundays...So I think I'll keep doing the same for a while, and at some point take time off, and in another 6-8 weeks, and startget building a plan for spring. Thanks for your input, it helped me a bit.

  21. #521
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    I used to focus on peaking and such. But then I realized something - there were times when I got sick, the weather didn't cooperate, etc etc etc, and my 'season' would be ruined.

    So I stopped working on peaking and just worked on getting stronger - this way I could race a lot of weekends, having fun. You get stronger by riding hard and then recovering. Problem is trying to do that while racing. A race is hard but not very specific, and if you recover from that by, say Wed, that gives you only one day before you need to take it easy for the next race. So it's not necessarily "peaking" per se, it's a matter of not training through a race (and therefore going to the race tired). I'm sure you've lined up at a crit and someone says that they did 80 miles yesterday and they're still sore/tired today. Well, they're training through the race. They're "reverse" peaking, i.e. they don't care about the race (or they're setting themselves up for failure or they're really, really, really strong).

    For me, "peaking" isn't as much peaking as it is making sure I recover before my A races.

    Overall I seem to get stronger for the whole year. I recover quicker, can ride harder, longer, etc as the season goes on. When I was really racing a lot, I had about 4-5 years of steady improvement, taking time off only for illness (2-3 weeks a year). Now I don't train as much so I spend the first part of the season getting back into, say, last May's shape.

    I go a bit easier before my target races - those are weeks where I maintain or lose fitness. The hard weeks, where Sunday isn't important, I break down my body and recover stronger. The more hard weeks I have, the stronger I get. Since I probably targeted 15 races this year (not all A races, but a bunch were important to teammates), I essentially gave up those weeks for "improvement". If I pinpointed only 2 days in the whole season, I could spend more weeks training hard and getting stronger, and I'd be strong for those two days.

    cdr

  22. #522
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    seems like a good place for a road forum/cx/racing/gear post:

    what's the verdict on the microshift stuff at performance? Are the 10spd cassettes shimano/sram compatible?

    I need to pull the 9spd veloce off my cx bike. it's a 1x9 and I'd like to go 1x10 shimano to be compatible with everything else I own. So how about the lower end microshift, a rear mech (could I use shimano or sram, or does microshift have their own cable pull ratio?), and I'm done?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  23. #523
    umd
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    I think Rob is using Microshift.

  24. #524
    Senior Member mitty2328's Avatar
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    So this is racing related i just don't wanna start a thread for it.

    Do you intervals make the difference in crit racing? My teammates do intervals and i do distance rides. But the ALWAYS do better than me in the crits. So to be succesful with crits should i get a interval plan going with my coach or what?

    note: my coach has been bugging me about doing them, i just haven't put forth the effort to help him start the plan.

  25. #525
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty2328 View Post
    So this is racing related i just don't wanna start a thread for it.

    Do you intervals make the difference in crit racing
    ? My teammates do intervals and i do distance rides. But the ALWAYS do better than me in the crits. So to be succesful with crits should i get a interval plan going with my coach or what?

    note: my coach has been bugging me about doing them, i just haven't put forth the effort to help him start the plan.
    yes. yes. and yes.

    the difference in a crit usually comes from being able to go hard (way above threshold) for a bit and not have it turn your legs into jello. A crit is basically a bunch of intervals, unless you're tt-ing of the front. train what you race
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

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