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-   -   The 41 refugee thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/668632-41-refugee-thread.html)

kensuf 08-04-10 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie53 (Post 11233657)
thank you for this thread... the stupid in the 41 needed a relief valve.

Here's a 33 sorta question. I've been told that the better measure of power is normalized power vs. average power. What's the difference and how is normalized power calculated?

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...malized-power/

You might want to go read the power training thread though..

Ygduf 08-04-10 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie53 (Post 11233657)
thank you for this thread... the stupid in the 41 needed a relief valve.

Here's a 33 sorta question. I've been told that the better measure of power is normalized power vs. average power. What's the difference and how is normalized power calculated?

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...malized-power/

read that. tl;dr: normalized takes power into account, 500w for 10s is more demanding than 50w for 100s, for example, while average is just that, an overall average with all power values weighted equally.

umd 08-04-10 05:48 PM

I wouldn't normalized power is better, it is used for a different purpose. Average power is the real work that you did, Normalized power is an estimation of the metabolic stress on your body. It is calculated with a rolling 30 second average of power^4. This magnifies (rewards) spikes in power and lessens dips in power. Very steady state power output will have NP=AP and very "spikey" power will have NP much higher than AP.

mattm 08-04-10 05:52 PM

If you want to feel great about a race/workout, look at NP.

If you want the real story, and be humbled, look at AP.

Having said that, NP is useful for calc'ing TSS.

Bob Dopolina 08-04-10 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coasting (Post 11229708)
i have a question.

what is the angle of your foot at the bottom of your pedal stroke. i rode with my rode nazi friends a few weeks ago and they got me to lower my seat so i could get a bit of ankle down action and it really helped. i had felt my seat was a teeny bit high but not enough to cause hip rocking. the lowering was tiny, but the ankle down really added a noticeable amount of power on the climb. it works for me but i wonder if this is what most people do.

Late to the party on this one and sorry if it was already covered.

"Ankling" (heel down) goes in and out of vogue all the time.

Personally I think it is silly to subscribe to only one method (and impossible to do).

I drop my heels for added power but it is also a product of a more rearward position on the saddle. As I scoot back I get behind the pedal more and power over the top. Seated climbing would be a good example.

If I am on top of the gear, while spinning out of a corner say, I move forward to the nose and my toe tends to go down. I'm not sure why this is but I think it is a product of a much higher cadence or a burst of leg speed. Seated sprinting comes to mind.

Bob Dopolina 08-04-10 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed (Post 11231106)
Do external bearing bottom brackets work on older steel frames with english threaded bottom brackets? I'm trying to build a cheap racing bike and am looking for some kind of cheap crankset + bb on ebay.

Yes. The use the same BSA thread (or Italian thread, you'd better check your bike).

jwible 08-04-10 06:26 PM

This thread is actually pretty dang good. It's like a "so you wanted to jump in the 33 but were afraid there might be sharks circling so swim here because we have a anti shark net off the beach" thread.

HMF 08-04-10 06:28 PM

Here's one:

What makes a "Crit" frame? Super compact and twitchy?

Bob Dopolina 08-04-10 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmalvarado (Post 11233900)
Here's one:

What makes a "Crit" frame? Super compact and twitchy?

Look at the head tube angle, the trail (a product of head tube angle and fork rake) and the overall shorter wheelbase. That's where the twitchiness comes from.

As to what denotes a crit frame consider this and also the seat tube angle where 73~73.5 deg is normal. By comparison a classic Italian road racing frame may be 72.5~73 deg with the 72.5 having a longer top tube and chain stays (and thereby wheelbase) and being considered more forgiving if you are spending hours in the saddle. Carbon has offset that a bit since these concepts were developed when steel was the material of choice.

A crit frame may also have less BB drop. By this I mean the BB will be farther from the ground. This lets you pedal through corners more often in is beneficial for crits where you can do 100+ corners in a race.

A desirable byproduct of these factors is the movement of the rear wheel more under your butt. This , IMHO, offers a better power transfer and is useful for sprinting where again, in a crit, depending on conditions and your technique, you could easily do 100+ sprints or accelerations in a crit.

Hope that answers you question.

Macster 08-04-10 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbUSA (Post 11230695)
Big fan of the 33 here [in a lurking capacity only]. Thanks for letting me post.

Thanks, Mike

O.
M.
G.


:eek:

agoodale 08-04-10 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmalvarado (Post 11233900)
Here's one: What makes a "Crit" frame? Super compact and twitchy?

for me...
1. a frame you won't cry over if it's destoyed
2. stiff
3. race geometry

roadiejorge 08-04-10 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwible (Post 11233885)
This thread is actually pretty dang good. It's like a "so you wanted to jump in the 33 but were afraid there might be sharks circling so swim here because we have a anti shark net off the beach" thread.

yeah, it's what the 41 could be without the stupid factor.

heckler 08-04-10 07:57 PM

I never see full fingers at my races, have I just missed it? The scabs just came off my knuckles from when I crashed early July. My half finger gloves basically disintigrated on impact, though my bibs and jersey held up very well. Are there half fingers that offer more protections than others?

mattm 08-04-10 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckler (Post 11234390)
I never see full fingers at my races, have I just missed it? The scabs just came off my knuckles from when I crashed early July. My half finger gloves basically disintigrated on impact, though my bibs and jersey held up very well

I've seen a few on BF and locally, but also people going no gloves altogether - in fact I was gonna sport long-fingered gloves in my last crit but went with no gloves since it was 90F+.. which actually keeps me in the drops since the hoods are a little slippery without any gloves.

Quote:

Are there half fingers that offer more protections than others?
Someone mentioned some earlier in the thread I think.

BillyD 08-04-10 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadiejorge (Post 11234370)
yeah, it's what the 41 could be without the stupid factor.

{sigh**

You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?

Yaaaa!!

Duuuuh!!

So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!

This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.

umd 08-04-10 08:18 PM

Billy, if you don't see that there is a different temperament in this forum vs the road cycling forum, then I don't know what to say.

roadiejorge 08-04-10 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyD (Post 11234503)
{sigh**

You know, here's the deal. This whole "stupid 41" thing is blown way out of context. There's stupid people everywhere . . . EVERYWHERE I tell you, including the 33! This is the internet, and as such it's open and available to each and every human being on this planet who has a computer and access to the internet. Are we going to get "stupid" visitors?

Yaaaa!!

Duuuuh!!

So what's the big deal? It's simple to deal with . . . when you see a post or a thread that fails your stupid filter, you skip over it and go find one you like better. DUH!!

This whole "stupid 41" thing is really about something else . . . which I won't address now because it'll ruffle delicate feathers, bruise fragile egos, and disturb the peace. I don't have time for that right now, I'm heading to bed . . . this is the East Coast after all. Adios.


I suppose I should have elaborated because you're taking my comment somewhere it doesn't need to go. I generally enjoy the 41 and post there regularly, but lately it seems like the posts become pissing contests all too quickly, and there are a lot more that read like notes passed between HS students which is why I haven't been as interested in posting there. Your response exemplifies the type of ridiculous posts I've been looking to get away from, but alas here we are. Thanks for the unnecessary lesson on intrawebz accessibility.
:rolleyes:

tuxbailey 08-04-10 08:42 PM

Good thread. My only chance of posting in the 33 since I am not planning to race :)

Velo Gator 08-04-10 08:44 PM

What percent of the racers at a typical race are women? I want to get into it, but I don't want to be the only one. It would be intimidating.

hammy56 08-04-10 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ijen0311 (Post 11234688)
What percent of the racers at a typical race are women? I want to get into it, but I don't want to be the only one. It would be intimidating.

women have their own category...field sizes vary depending on location and course...go spectate at a few races and see if it peaks your interest.

Velo Gator 08-04-10 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammy56 (Post 11234710)
women have their own category...field sizes vary depending on location and course...go spectate at a few races and see if it peaks your interest.

They don't race together? Interesting. I guess I was assuming it was like a tri.

echappist 08-04-10 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ijen0311 (Post 11234688)
What percent of the racers at a typical race are women? I want to get into it, but I don't want to be the only one. It would be intimidating.

for collegiate 25%, for usac, even smaller percentage. it's more evenly distributed for tris

echappist 08-04-10 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ijen0311 (Post 11234736)
They don't race together? Interesting. I guess I was assuming it was like a tri.

except if it's not a well known race, the cat 1-4 women race together, and there might just be 10 people in it. so it end up being like a timetrial

El Diablo Rojo 08-04-10 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umd (Post 11234533)
Billy, if you don't see that there is a different temperament in this forum vs the road cycling forum, then I don't know what to say.

+1 but then he Billy can't be too smart, he is a Cowboys fan after all ;) Seriously though, as a mod you have to be at least somewhat cognizant of the difference of tone in this subforum. People have come here asking pretty basic questions that they couldn't get answered without an 70/30 BS to answer level in the road bike forum..basic road bike questions for gods sake. I used to spend a lot of time in the road forum but over the past year it's just completely gone off the rails. Most of the Road Race Forum regulars feel the same way. Many won't post there anymore, guys who have years of experience and could offer solid advice.

Velo Gator 08-04-10 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjimbosandwich (Post 11234755)
except if it's not a well known race, the cat 1-4 women race together, and there might just be 10 people in it. so it end up being like a timetrial

Good to know!


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